Loadcenter as a junction box?

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Hey guys. I'm doing a relocation of a 100Amp sub-panel from customers basement to 1st floor. The house is in a flood plane and floods frequently, submerging the entire panel under water. Questions being... Can I use the existing panel as junction/pull box and extend my branch circuits to new panel? Will filler plates in the open spaces suffice in the old cover? Will I be violating 110.3. Thanks
 
Questions being... Can I use the existing panel as junction/pull box and extend my branch circuits to new panel? Will filler plates in the open spaces suffice in the old cover? Will I be violating 110.3. Thanks
Welcome to the forum.

Yes.

Yes, but screwing the cover closed is easier.

No; its done all the time.
 
Remove the panelboard component and just leave the enclosure. In case that needed to be said.

Be careful of derating requirements if you hope to run a single conduit between the old enclosure and your new panel.
 
I have a local steel fab shop make me solid blank covers when I do this.

Here’s one of a surface mount extension and cover I had built. It was a push-matic panel. Switches are for stage lighting.

b6312ad7cc59de880c014295ee195f54.jpg



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Question - relocating the breaker panel is fine but isn't the old panel (that you are now using as a junction box) going to fill with water during a flood ? I'm not sure if I understood the OP correctly but if I did you would have to know, in advance, that there was going to be a flood and shut the breakers off. Then you would have to contend with all the branch circuit wiring getting wet. Sorry, didn't mean to throw a wrench into this thread.
 
Question - relocating the breaker panel is fine but isn't the old panel (that you are now using as a junction box) going to fill with water during a flood ? I'm not sure if I understood the OP correctly but if I did you would have to know, in advance, that there was going to be a flood and shut the breakers off. Then you would have to contend with all the branch circuit wiring getting wet. Sorry, didn't mean to throw a wrench into this thread.
I was thinking about this too. The wiring to the old panel was submerged, so ... doesn't it need to be replaced? While doing that, just run to the new panel.
 
Question - relocating the breaker panel is fine but isn't the old panel (that you are now using as a junction box) going to fill with water during a flood ? I'm not sure if I understood the OP correctly but if I did you would have to know, in advance, that there was going to be a flood and shut the breakers off. Then you would have to contend with all the branch circuit wiring getting wet. Sorry, didn't mean to throw a wrench into this thread.
True issue, any NM wiring would have to have been checked for penetration and replaced after a flood event, I would move all branch wiring into a new box as high as possible with consideration for fill size and pulling requirements, or for added security for flooding you could put into a WT box, sealing all NM penetrations, or use the waterproof connectors to avoid multiple shorts during flood event.
waterproof-wire-nuts.jpg
I've had to respond to a flood event that completely submerged the panel and not a single breaker tripped, even circuits terminating in flooded zone. Seems it would gave been a huge saftey issue, not sure why they never tripped.
 
Question - relocating the breaker panel is fine but isn't the old panel (that you are now using as a junction box) going to fill with water during a flood ? I'm not sure if I understood the OP correctly but if I did you would have to know, in advance, that there was going to be a flood and shut the breakers off. Then you would have to contend with all the branch circuit wiring getting wet. Sorry, didn't mean to throw a wrench into this thread.
Yes, I still need to contend with the branch circuit wiring getting wet. I have waterproof wire nuts on all of the splices for added protection to the exposed portions of conductors. At least they don't have to worry about the breakers and panel components being compromised by corrosion. Yes, more could be done(moving all branch circuit wiring, assuming there's enough slack to do so). I believe I made it much safer and easier to do maintenance on. I appreciate the feedback guys. This is an awesome platform.
 
On the old neutral bar in the old panel...can’t see them in the photo too many wires in the way.
To be clear this is not my work...just came across this and had to share it with all the sparky’s I knew. It’s one way of getting out a permit I guess lol.


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I have a local steel fab shop make me solid blank covers when I do this.

Here’s one of a surface mount extension and cover I had built. It was a push-matic panel. Switches are for stage lighting.

b6312ad7cc59de880c014295ee195f54.jpg
Now that's going the extra mile. Love the idea of a getting a cover fabricated!! Looks good.

I've personally never done this. The few times that it has come up I demo'd the panel and installed an actual listed junction box by whatever dimensions were needed... but I have worked with several guys who have done this and just bought a piece of steel from HD and/or screwed the hinged door closed.

I've always wondered if it was acceptable per code... The only thing I can think of that would possible challenge this would be listing requirements.
 
Now that's going the extra mile. Love the idea of a getting a cover fabricated!! Looks good.

I've personally never done this. The few times that it has come up I demo'd the panel and installed an actual listed junction box by whatever dimensions were needed... but I have worked with several guys who have done this and just bought a piece of steel from HD and/or screwed the hinged door closed.

I've always wondered if it was acceptable per code... The only thing I can think of that would possible challenge this would be listing requirements.
There is no requirement for junction boxes to be listed.
 
There is no requirement for junction boxes to be listed.
No? Huh. I would imagine there would be and that being "listed for the purpose" would be a universal requirement, but I guess not.
What am I thinking! A universal requirement that negates having to flip through multiple different articles would be too simple for the NEC, lol.

Isn't there something about the box volume having to be printed on the box itself? I always assumed that was part of a listing.
 
Yes, I still need to contend with the branch circuit wiring getting wet. I have waterproof wire nuts on all of the splices for added protection to the exposed portions of conductors. At least they don't have to worry about the breakers and panel components being compromised by corrosion. Yes, more could be done(moving all branch circuit wiring, assuming there's enough slack to do so). I believe I made it much safer and easier to do maintenance on. I appreciate the feedback guys. This is an awesome platform.

While most comments are well-meaning, nothing will keep water-incursion that could prevent or even mitigate the problem. You can slow the water seepage with gasketed cover. . . but the removable knockouts will not prevent water from seeping-in.
Once water managed to gain entry—it will stay there much longer even when the flood waters had receded.

One solution would be to install a JB above the waterline with regular NEMA 1 (general purpose JB) . One comment alluded to this one.

Recommended procedure:

1.Terminate the home runs and feeder to the above NEMA I Box. If you can pull the wires towards the new NEMA I enclosure. . . installing a NEMA 6P won’t be necessary.

Otherwise, this will require installing another NEMA 6P (water tight JB designed for water immersion) at the location of the existing panel. This is the JB that is subject to be submerged. Schedule 80 PVC can be used as nipples with listed water tight gasketed hubs. This pipe (conduit) can be threaded as well.

2. There is [on the market] plastic or fiber enclosures that you can have the holes tapped (threaded) and using gasketed hubs when entering the enclosure. This also comes with gasketed cover. Bonding should not be a problem. These boxes are not really expensive.
Leave the old panel in place. . . and just re-route the home runs and the feeder. Location of home runs and orientations may vary. . . but I’m sure your skill will overcome this daunting task.

This is not an easy task-- but if you want to do it right it will take some of effort.

Good things don’t come easy.

Here is a type of enclosure.:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...NYCFr_UpATMMDSS_E-9uY69yjQyWP3i1uQJg&usqp=CAc

I’ve done things like this in breweries where water intrusion is a constant “battle” --and with all these sanitizing wash downs, total housecleaning at the end of each shift is the order of the day. In addition, 480 volts connections are not accommodating -- being soaking wet inside enclosure.

We did use stainless steel--water tight enclosures NEMA Type 6P.
For residential use--plastic or composite fibre (NEMA I) is good,

Good luck and may you prosper in the midst of Covid.
 
I have a local steel fab shop make me solid blank covers when I do this.

Here’s one of a surface mount extension and cover I had built. It was a push-matic panel. Switches are for stage lighting.

b6312ad7cc59de880c014295ee195f54.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think I'd of found somewhere else to mount the switches rather than having to hold a cover full of switches and fixed wiring when taking the cover off of the j-box.

Just sayin.

JAP>
 
I think I'd of found somewhere else to mount the switches rather than having to hold a cover full of switches and fixed wiring when taking the cover off of the j-box.

Just sayin.

JAP>

I left enough wire coiled up that you can set the cover on the floor. I taped it up pretty well that it shouldn’t birds nest when taking it out. If anyone gets called back to work on it, it’ll be me, and I try to look out for me.


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