Location of GFCI for Whilrpool Tub - Residential

[sullivanth]

I have just inherited a jobsite that another licensed electrician worked.
He installed a GFCI duplex rec in the floor, facing up, under the skirt of the tub.
The 'access' to this device is now behind a 10" x 10" plastic cover mounted in a finished tile bathroom.
It has failed inspection, but no code articles have been noted yet.

What are your comments about this job? Please include code articles if you find violations

:happysad:

 

[George Stolz]

What's the problem with the install?

It has failed inspection, but no code articles have been noted yet.

Doesn't seem right.

 

[infinity]

I would guess that it has something to do with ones interpretation of readily accessible, specifically the part about removing obstacles.

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of be-
ing reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections
without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite
to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable
ladders, and so forth.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

New wording in the 2011 code would clearly permit that installation.

680.73 Accessibility. Hydromassage bathtub electrical equipment shall be accessible without damaging the building structure
or building finish. Where the hydromassage bathtub is cord- and plug-connected with the supply receptacle accessible only through a service access opening, the receptacle shall be installed so that its face is within direct view and not more than 300 mm (1 ft) of the opening.

 

[iwire]

New wording in the 2011 code would clearly permit that installation.

That allows the receptacle under the tub, not the GFCI.

 

[iwire]

This is from the 2008 NEC

680.71 Protection. Hydromassage bathtubs and their asso-ciated electrical components shall be on an individual branch circuit(s) and protected by a readily accessible ground-fault circuit interrupter. All 125-volt, single-phase receptacles not exceeding 30 amperes and located within 1.83 m (6 ft) measured horizontally of the inside walls of a hydromassage tub shall be protected by a ground-fault cir-cuit interrupter.

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of be-ing reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

Around here that means not behind a access panel under the tub. We use a faceless GFCI on the wall.

 

[GoldDigger]

Around here that means not behind a access panel under the tub. We use a faceless GFCI on the wall.

In Los Altos, CA (near San Jose) one inspector approved a GFCI installed in the space under the tub, with the service opening in an adjacent storage room. He would not approve a standard GFCI receptacle, but would approve a faceless GFCI feeding an adjacent receptacle, both under the tub. :blink:
FWIW, he also commented that it was OK because the access panel was a friction-closed hinged cabinet door rather than a panel that required unscrewing or unlatching. To him that made it readily accessible.
Either way the test function of the GFCI was out of sight and out of mind, which I did not like.

 

[sullivanth]

In Los Altos, CA (near San Jose) one inspector approved a GFCI installed in the space under the tub, with the service opening in an adjacent storage room. He would not approve a standard GFCI receptacle, but would approve a faceless GFCI feeding an adjacent receptacle, both under the tub. :blink:
FWIW, he also commented that it was OK because the access panel was a friction-closed hinged cabinet door rather than a panel that required unscrewing or unlatching. To him that made it readily accessible.
Either way the test function of the GFCI was out of sight and out of mind, which I did not like.

Ok, lets expound on this site.
First inspection - 8 of the 10 replacement rec's installed in various areas of the residence, installed with reverse polarity
Replacement 15A GFCI in lower floor bathroom, when tripped/tested, turned off the bathroom lites.

Now for the bathroom with the whirlpool bathtub,
Duplex GFCI rec, non-tamperproof, not marked as listed as suitable for wet locations, is mounted IN the floor, facing up. Mounted in a Carlon blue single gang plastic box listed for 1.6 or 1.7cu

Access cover is a 10"x10" plastic, pop-in cover, about 17" from the GFCI.

Question here, should this installation be approved and signed off complete?

 

[sullivanth]

Additional Question concerning

Additional Question concerning

An aditional question concerning this installation.

Is the area BENEATH the installed whirlpool tub in a residential bathroom, completely enclosed in a permanent tiled finish; rated as a DAMP LOCATION, or not rated????

 

[George Stolz]

8 of the 10 replacement rec's installed in various areas of the residence, installed with reverse polarity
Replacement 15A GFCI in lower floor bathroom, when tripped/tested, turned off the bathroom lites.

Is this new construction or a remodel? :?

The reverse polarity receptacles merit a tag, 200.10.

If this is a remodel, I don't see how replacing a device forces the contractor to bring the circuit up to code, specifically 210.11.

Now for the bathroom with the whirlpool bathtub,
Duplex GFCI rec, non-tamperproof, not marked as listed as suitable for wet locations, is mounted IN the floor, facing up. Mounted in a Carlon blue single gang plastic box listed for 1.6 or 1.7cu

• Duplex is fine
• non-TR is not
• it's not required to be listed as suitable for wet locations
• are you seriously suggesting they install a damp cover per 406.9(A)?
• mounting it in the floor, facing up is not prohibited. The space under the bathtub is not subject to floor cleaning equipment or in no way resembles a counter work area. (406.9(D), 406.5(E))
• There is no conceivable way Carlon makes a single gang box rated for less than 2 cu. in.

Access cover is a 10"x10" plastic, pop-in cover, about 17" from the GFCI.

If it requires no tools to remove, it's arguably not much of an obstacle. Can you reach the GFCI to press the test and reset buttons?

Question here, should this installation be approved and signed off complete?

Not until the receptacles' polarity is corrected.

Is the area BENEATH the installed whirlpool tub in a residential bathroom, completely enclosed in a permanent tiled finish; rated as a DAMP LOCATION, or not rated????

IMO, it is not a damp location. To state otherwise would call for damp receptacle covers, and I have never seen or heard of that before. It could be drier under there than in the bathroom itself, actually.

IMO, you should be able to cite the codes violated if you wish to hold up a final.

 

[infinity]

It's not damp by definition.

 

[George Stolz]

I should add - 2008 NEC 314.27(C) would require a box listed specifically for the floor, it would be a stretch for the exception to cover the receptacle under the tub.

 

[iwire]

I should add - 2008 NEC 314.27(C) would require a box listed specifically for the floor, it would be a stretch for the exception to cover the receptacle under the tub.

That would be for a box in the floor not on the floor.

 

[iwire]

If it requires no tools to remove, it's arguably not much of an obstacle.

I agree, the installations I have seen were in hotels and the access panels required tools to remove.

 

[George Stolz]

That would be for a box in the floor not on the floor.

As was mentioned in the OP.

 

[iwire]

As was mentioned in the OP.

I missed that but still doubt it.

 

[sullivanth]

Is this new construction or a remodel? :?

• Duplex is fine
• non-TR is not
• it's not required to be listed as suitable for wet locations
• are you seriously suggesting they install a damp cover per 406.9(A)?
• mounting it in the floor, facing up is not prohibited. The space under the bathtub is not subject to floor cleaning equipment or in no way resembles a counter work area. (406.9(D), 406.5(E))
• There is no conceivable way Carlon makes a single gang box rated for less than 2 cu. in.

Suggesting a damp cover, NO, not my intent, just looking for opinions on the space definition. I know a bathroom rates a wet/damp location rated receptacle.

My mistake on the Carlon box fill
Rec mounted in a floor box, does this not require compliance with 314.27 (2) B Floor Boxes - Listed for Apllication ??

And this site is a remodel for a bathroom, with additional misc work requested by homeowner in various other sectons of the home

 

[kwired]

An aditional question concerning this installation.

Is the area BENEATH the installed whirlpool tub in a residential bathroom, completely enclosed in a permanent tiled finish; rated as a DAMP LOCATION, or not rated????

I sure hope the area under my tub is not wet or damp, or I will eventually be having much more problems than deciding if WR rated receptacles and wet/damp location covers are necessary.

 

[sullivanth]

That would be for a box in the floor not on the floor.

Please excuse my mistake, the box is installed IN the floor, cut into the plywood under the tub area itself

 

[sullivanth]

I sure hope the area under my tub is not wet or damp, or I will eventually be having much more problems than deciding if WR rated receptacles and wet/damp location covers are necessary.

I agree, hopefully not WET, but I know of the newer requirement for a WT labeled receptacle and need to know if this location requires such a receptacle.