Location of Ground Rods, Plastic piping

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bjp_ne_elec

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Again, I know I've said it before, but the residential game is new to me - and I'm back in the trade after a 15 year abscense.

On a new house, where do you guys generally install the ground rods? My home , and most I've seen, have the ground rods driven outside. Generally wire penetrates side of house, just below meter socket, and the ground is routed down in to the earth. Others, I've seen the ground rod (or rods) driven in the basement. My concern about the basement is one of possibly creating a spot for water to penetrate in to the basement.

I know you have to put a grounding bushing on the end of a metal conduit (although on my house - which is 20 years old, and I didn't buy it new - the ground wire just snakes in to a 1/2" EMT, and it has no grounding bushing), but do most of you end up with a situation that requires the the Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC) to be installed inside EMT?

(Doing a little researching after posting this - I came upon this ( http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=649540&postcount=23 ) and am confused. The sketch shows the GEC going in to the meter socket. What situation would put you in to the meter socket with the GEC?)


I know I'm big on pics - but one photo captures so much - do any of you have any good pics that show how you've tied the grounding in? This to include ground rods (in NH, PSNH requires two), the routing of the GEC and any bonding.

Now this house has the plumbing roughed in, all I see is plastic (white) piping, with the only copper being some short peices at where the sinks would be. My question is, what do you do in this case, to bond to the "water piping". This system is on a well, so there obviously won't be any meter. Actually when I bid this job, it was indicated to me it was "city water" - but that's a whole other story. Also like to pics that some might have when dealing with plastic water piping - I'm assuming there's going to be some copper around the pressure tank, etc - but maybe not.

Thanks,

Brett
 
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You don't need to bond the water pipes-- they are plastic.

Thre ground rod is usually driven right below the meter and terminated in the meter on the neutral bar.

Sometimes I sleeve my ground wire down the wall but I don't use emt, rather PVC-- no bonding necessary and it is only for looks. Personally I don't mind the bare copper-- I usually tuck it tight to the POdco underground pipe.

Ground rod is usually buried below grade with a special underground clamp.
 
You are only required to bond water piping systems. Short sections of metal pipe are not a piping system. In your case the piping system is plastic. If this were a new house you wouldn't need to use any ground rods if you were to use a CEE in the footing.
 
Infinity - CEE - can you explain. Remember I'm still "getting the cob webs out" - and so much has changed in 15 years.

In your area, do you bring GEC to meter socket or panel. Back in central NY, where I was a journeyman in a previous life, we had to bring the GEC in to the main panel or first disconnecting means - it absolutely did not go in to the meter socket.

Thanks,

Brett
 
The ground rod is a suppliment to the water main ground. Some areas here in NJ require 2 rods. If your ground rod was installed in the basement before the concrete was poured it is considered a concrete encased electrode (CEE as Infinity mentioned) in which case you would not be required to install any additional ground rods. By the same token, if your area requires the bonding of re-bar in the house footings that, also, is considered a CEE and a suppliment to your water main ground.

In your case, if all the plumbing in this house is in PVC or PEX there isn't anything to bond to. If the line entering the house from the well is metal, bond to that. Otherwise, the CEE is acceptable.

Some jurisdictions will allow you to install the GEC into the meter socket. Usually the POCO's have no problem with that. However, there are some rogue inspectors that will not allow it because it is not servicable. Why would you have to service the EGC once it's inside the meter pan ? I have no idea.
 
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If your footing contains 20' of 1/2" or larger rebar you are required to use it. If the rebar doesn't exist you could choose to make a CEE by installing 20' of bare copper in the base of the footing. If you didn't have a metallic water pipe then the CEE would be the only electrode that you would need.
 
If this is a new house, aren't we required to run a GEC to 20 feet or more of #4 bare in the slab or to the rebar in the footings?
 
Many jurisdictions here require the CEE. It is inspected with the footer before pour for any new construction. In any case, the POCO doesn't allow GECs to go to the meter can.
 
In the Chicagoland area, we drive the ground rod next to the meter pedestal. We connect the GEC from the rod to a ground terminal in the meter. The inside load center picks up the ground through the conduit connecting the pedestal to the load center. Some inspectors require the use of grounding bushings on each end of the conduit so as not to rely on the concentric knock outs.

As far as the inside supplemental ground, if the water piping is copper, some inspectors will let you run a GEC from the load center to the nearest cold water pipe while others will require you to run the GEC from the load center to the street side of the water meter. If the water piping is PVC then we have to run a GEC from the load center to the street side of the water meter. In either case, if the GEC is installed in conduit, we need to have a hub that bonds the GEC to the end of the conduit. We usually use a ground strap assembly for this application. I can't quote the section but I remember the NEC does require the conduit to be bonded to the GEC where it exits the conduit.

It is common practice here to use conduit to connect the meter to the load center. Is it done differently in other parts of the country?
 
So it sounds like the inspectors make it up as they go.


Some inspectors require the use of grounding bushings on each end of the conduit so as not to rely on the concentric knock outs.
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some inspectors will let you run a GEC from the load center to the nearest cold water pipe while others will require you to run the GEC from the load center to the street side of the water meter. If the water piping is PVC then we have to run a GEC from the load center to the street side of the water meter. In either case, if the GEC is installed in conduit, we need to have a hub that bonds the GEC to the end of the conduit.
Click to expand...
 
So it sounds like the inspectors make it up as they go.
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They certainly do. I wish that there was a true "National Electrical Code" that was used as the one and only guideline for electrical installations throughout the entire country. Right now there is absolutely no consistency in installation requirements from one jurisdiction to another. If you are estimating in multiple jurisdictions it will drive you to drink.

Cheers!
 
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