Lockout tagout

[JdoubleU]

I will be shareing this week on the topic of lockout tagout. Does anyone no of some good stories to tell or accident videos that would instill even more the importants.

 

[mdshunk]

I can tell you about a factory production supervisor who got fired because he ordered one of my lockout locks cut off and the production line placed in service. Wait... I guess I just did. I went home at the end of my shift, but had to leave my lock on because things weren't 100% completed and safe yet. I guess that provoked him, and he saw my lock as a personal challenge, I suppose.

edit--- fixed type-o

 

[JdoubleU]

Wow

Wow

Thank you, I remember reading about that. Yikes

 

[480sparky]

I used to work for an outfit that supplied every field employee with a LOTO kit. And they were pretty strict about requiring their use.

Problem was, many of us bounced from one job to another. So one day we would put a lock on, and never see the job again. We ended up cutting tons of them off because the guy who put it on yesterday isn't here today.

Management finally started charging the guys for them until we explained the problem to them. They then replaced all the padlocks with ones that are all keyed alike.

 

[nakulak]

we have the same problem. I left a box locked on a base cause it was unsafe. So what the guy who went back months later had to cut it off, its cheaper and better than someone getting killed. It is convenient to have a bunch of keyed alike tho.

 

[mdshunk]

It is convenient to have a bunch of keyed alike tho.

That sorta defeats the purpose of LOTO, though. If you have 6 guys locks on a multiple lockout adaptor, one guy can take all 6 off. At least one of those guys could be crawled back in someplace, without a clue that the process is about to be started, and could get hurt. I am absolutely not in favor of locks keyed alike among multiple personnel. I think that any locks keyed alike must belong to the same man. I am in favor, however, of a master key that would belong to someone of authority. A person who could be sure of the status of each man who's lock he's about to remove. That would be helpful for the instances where a guy was actually done, but went home and forgot to take his lock off, or who was assigned to another project and forgot to take his lock off a multiple lockout adaptor.

 

[emahler]

we haven't run into this issue..but another possible alternative is to provide each man with 2 locks...1 that is individually keyed and one that is keyed alike...this way, while on-site, individual keyed is used...should he have to leave, replace with alike keyed so that someone else may unlock it...

 

[480sparky]

That sorta defeats the purpose of LOTO, though.

We went to the tags in addition to the lock. The tag stated who placed the lock, and the same person should sign it to remove the lock. But only those of us in the company had a key, so if we documented the fact that the person who placed the lock was not available, another employee stepped up to the plate and took the responsibility for removing it.

I left them about the time all this was taking place, so I don't know how it all worked out, or whether OSHA would approve....

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Keyed alike is not part of the LO/TO procedures. If the shift is ending, the written procedure should explain that the person coming on shift replaces the lock from the tech of the shift before.

As stated by Marc, what is the sense of LO/TO if the locks are all keyed alike???

Where are the written procedures/training?

 

[480sparky]

Keyed alike is not part of the LO/TO procedures. If the shift is ending, the written procedure should explain that the person coming on shift replaces the lock from the tech of the shift before.

As stated by Marc, what is the sense of LO/TO if the locks are all keyed alike???

Where are the written procedures/training?

There's not another shift. This wasn't factory work, it was an ordinary job site.

The problem we had was at the end of the day, Joe Sixpack (as well as the job foreman) would assume he's coming back to the same job tomorrow.

When Joe got up the next morning, the office would call and tell him to report to another job. Now Joe has a lock on a breaker or something, and he's not going back there....

 

[tomP]

There's not another shift. This wasn't factory work, it was an ordinary job site.

The problem we had was at the end of the day, Joe Sixpack (as well as the job foreman) would assume he's coming back to the same job tomorrow.

When Joe got up the next morning, the office would call and tell him to report to another job. Now Joe has a lock on a breaker or something, and he's not going back there....

I know we are a factoty, however here is how we get around this problem.
I lockout with my lock during my shift, if the work is to progress into another shift department locks are used to replace mine (keys are kept in the office under control of supervision).

When the next shift comes in they are required to place their locks on the equipment also for the duration of their work. When leaving they remove theirs leaving the department locks on and so on.
The department locks stay on until job completition.

 

[tomP]

There's not another shift. This wasn't factory work, it was an ordinary job site.

The problem we had was at the end of the day, Joe Sixpack (as well as the job foreman) would assume he's coming back to the same job tomorrow.

When Joe got up the next morning, the office would call and tell him to report to another job. Now Joe has a lock on a breaker or something, and he's not going back there....

I know we are a factoty, however here is how we get around this problem.
I lockout with my lock during my shift, if the work is to progress into another shift, department locks are used to replace mine (keys are kept in the office under control of supervision).

When the next shift comes in they are required to place their locks on the equipment also for the duration of their work. When leaving they remove theirs leaving the department locks on and so on.
The department locks stay on until job completition.

 

[infinity]

Since you asked for stories I had a situation where two electricians were working on a 277 volt lighting circuit at the same time. Tom put his LO/TO equipment on the CB and went to work on the circuit. Dick looked at the panel, saw the CB was off and locked out and went to work on the circuit in a different area. Tom finished his work, removed the LO/To device and turned the circuit back on. Dick got a nasty surprise, 277 volts through his hand. Needless to say Dick was lazy and didn't follow the procedure of installing his own lock and tag on the breaker. Luckily no one got hurt.

 

[LarryFine]

Dick looked at the panel, saw the CB was off and locked out and went to work on the circuit in a different area. Tom finished his work, removed the LO/To device and turned the circuit back on.

That's why they make these:

 

[infinity]

That's why they make these:

Exactly. There were even present on the job site but due to his laziness Dick didn't install one with his lock and tag. Human error strikes again.

 

[billsnuff]

Prior to adopting LOTO we lost a hyd pump motor 480 3 ph. Elec pulled E-1 and killed the machine, opened the pecker head and disconnected the motor.
Checked leads, pulled motor, replaced motor with spare, shimmed, etc. He had reconnected one pair of leads and had two to go.

at this point, you need to understand that the disco was 30' from the pump at the rear of the printing press, not in sight. press oper. was with elec., watching and his helper was in the vicinity of the disco. hand signals are used to communicate. Oper, using hand signal, like breaking a stick, communicates to helper to go on break. helper mistakes signal for 'power on' and restores power.

arc flash, elec laying in aisle 5' from motor, unhurt but shaken. OCPD worked.
Oper yelling at helper. helper thought he killed the elec. And it all could have been avoided with a lock.

it's your life and it's your lock. See 480sparky's sign about this 'machine doesn't have any brains, use yours'.

 

[DUCKMAN]

That sorta defeats the purpose of LOTO, though. If you have 6 guys locks on a multiple lockout adaptor, one guy can take all 6 off. At least one of those guys could be crawled back in someplace, without a clue that the process is about to be started, and could get hurt. I am absolutely not in favor of locks keyed alike among multiple personnel. I think that any locks keyed alike must belong to the same man. I am in favor, however, of a master key that would belong to someone of authority. A person who could be sure of the status of each man who's lock he's about to remove. That would be helpful for the instances where a guy was actually done, but went home and forgot to take his lock off, or who was assigned to another project and forgot to take his lock off a multiple lockout adaptor.

Agreed! As an OSHA instructor, I would agree that this is a clear violation of the intenet and practice of the policy. I would rather cut off 100 locks, than kill one employee.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Management finally started charging the guys for them until we explained the problem to them. They then replaced all the padlocks with ones that are all keyed alike.

Completely defeating the purpose of using a uniquely keyed lock.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

There's not another shift. This wasn't factory work, it was an ordinary job site.

The problem we had was at the end of the day, Joe Sixpack (as well as the job foreman) would assume he's coming back to the same job tomorrow.

When Joe got up the next morning, the office would call and tell him to report to another job. Now Joe has a lock on a breaker or something, and he's not going back there....

The problem is the company has 3 conflicting procedures in practice. LOTO, no practice of handing off the incompleted work, and "you may be reassigned on a moment's notice" all mix like oil & water.

 

[FNCnca]

I can tell you about a factory production supervisor who got fired because he ordered one of my lockout locks cut off and the production line placed in service. Wait... I guess I just did. I went home at the end of my shift, but had to leave my lock on because things weren't 100% completed and safe yet.

Had similar thing happen to me.
Was modifying some equipment when the shift ended. I left my lock on and note in the lockout center and the maintenance office, stating that the machine was not ready, had a few more hours to go.
Supervisor came in early to start up and found it not finished. He decided to complete the work himself. Wired up the last motor, then cut my lock. He pushed cycle start, machine crashed horribly, because all the control changes were not done or tested.
The supervisor went to my manager, telling him I caused all the damage and that I should be fired.
I followed procedure, so I was not at fault.
The amazing thing is, the supervisor was not fired, he was demoted. 3 days later he quit, screaming all the way, how he was mistreated.