Looked at a panel today that has me wondering...... She is disbonded.

[fastline]

Doing some basic work for a guy in BFE. He has a basic detached metal shed and I guess the county there actually does some contract work on installs I guess so as I understand the rural county electric ran from the home owner's dedicated pad Xfmr to the shed, with separate meter and all.

But as I was stabbing a branch, I realized that sucker is disbonded, and very obviously. This is a totally separate service and I am now questioning my thinking, mainly because the dang county electricians did that! Am I missing something?

I already warned the home owner as he needs to get them out to verify. But in any case, OF COURSE the home owner is connecting stuff as both term bars are the same. God only knows how many amps are trying to pump through that GEC.

 

[hbiss]

Disbonded? Do you mean that the neutral/EGC bonding screw is missing? So, fix it.

-Hal

 

[fastline]

Disbond, unbond, anti bond, remove bond, the opposite of bond, bond be miss'n yo, bondalay no here alay.

Technically, yes, most just remove the magic green screw, but looks like this Eaton panel was special with a fat buss bar between term strips so that peeled one end of it up that was clamped across the panel. Essentially making one side neutral, the other ground.

As for me fixing, I am not remotely there to deal with that. If the county did it wrong, they can come fix it. I'm just a bit 'shocked' (I got jokes) that the big pros came in with government funds and all, and purposely 'disbonded' the panel. Yes, disbond is a word. I use it in engineering of composites, but it works here great.

 

[suemarkp]

How many wires are feeding the panel, 3 or 4?

 

[fastline]

How many wires are feeding the panel, 3 or 4?

3

 

[infinity]

How about some photos of the panel.

 

[Fred B]

OK, so you have separately metered, separate building, running 3 conductor, and an unbonded panel. Another question is there a mechanical bonding such as metal pipe from a disconnect or at the meter? If so, there is your 4th conductor. And, is the NG bond at the meter? Only one NG bond allowed. Did the installer only land the neutral conductor on the one side?

 

[infinity]

OK, so you have separately metered, separate building, running 3 conductor, and an unbonded panel. Another question is there a mechanical bonding such as metal pipe from a disconnect or at the meter? If so, there is your 4th conductor. And, is the NG bond at the meter? Only one NG bond allowed. Did the installer only land the neutral conductor on the one side?

The MBJ should be in the same enclosure as the service disconnect which sounds like the SD is in the panel. The meter neutral is also be factory bonded.

 

[fastline]

Basically PVC conduit comes to building, up to meter can, then to the right in a junction box outside building. Then appears to punch through building with steel nipple. Ground rod/wire placed outside.

If a 4th ground wire was carried in conduit, it was never landed in the panel. It's obvious the steel pipe is the ground.

Now I didn't open that junction box but could be a disconnect. I guess if that is the case, it may "be code", but IMO, that is the sort of thing I wouldn't do. There is no issue leaving that panel bonded. Literally bonded to junction box with steel pipe, only 3 inches away.

Of course the county didn't educate the home owner so I will be back there today and will throw a meter on the ground wire just to see how much.

 

[infinity]

Basically PVC conduit comes to building, up to meter can, then to the right in a junction box outside building. Then appears to punch through building with steel nipple. Ground rod/wire placed outside.

Not sure why there is a junction box there but it doesn't matter if there is. The MBJ must be installed in the panel where the service disconnect is located. There should not be an EGC run with the service conductors so that is correct but the metal nipple requires bonding.

 

[roger]

Basically PVC conduit comes to building, up to meter can, then to the right in a junction box outside building. Then appears to punch through building with steel nipple. Ground rod/wire placed outside.

If a 4th ground wire was carried in conduit, it was never landed in the panel. It's obvious the steel pipe is the ground.

Since it is a service (not a feeder) it would only need three conductors

 

[fastline]

Since it is a service (not a feeder) it would only need three conductors

I realize, but I also didn't expect an unbonded panel either.. The question is the whole "first means of disconnect". So if you put the ol kill switch on the outside, which is a great idea, then you have to unbond the panel 3" away?

 

[infinity]

I realize, but I also didn't expect an unbonded panel either.. The question is the whole "first means of disconnect". So if you put the ol kill switch on the outside, which is a great idea, then you have to unbond the panel 3" away?

Terms like kill switch are a bit confusing. If you're referring to the service disconnect then yes the panel on the inside would not have a bonded neutral and would require a 4-wire feeder. You could have an emergency disconnect on the outside and still use a 3-wire.

 

[jaggedben]

Best I can tell, you have service equipment with no MBJ. You are correct that you should install an MBJ. That isn't some ticky tack code rule, the install is geniunely more dangerous without an MBJ. Pretty rare for it to be left out but I've happened upon it before. Doesn't mean much to me that it was county electricians, I've seen lots of different types screw up.