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Rick Kelly

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Anyone interested in partaking in a little research about neutral currents on 120/208 3ph 4w systems? Send me a private message for details.

Rick...
 
I know CharlieB will disagree, but I have to mention that 120/208 3ph, 4 wire does not exist. I think you meant to say 208Y/120V, 3ph, 4Wire (Note: 3ph, 4W added for clarity, but optional):grin:
 
kingpb said:
I know CharlieB will disagree, but I have to mention that 120/208 3ph, 4 wire does not exist.
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You are right about that. :wink:

Even though (as I will readily concede) you have "truth" on your side, I have "reality" on mine, and reality is the stronger of the two. The reality is that
(1) A vast great number of people are not going to make a point of distinguishing the two expressions (120/208) and (208/120), with or without the "Y," and
(2) The world will not be made less safe because of item (1).

Here is "Corollary One to Charlie's Rule":
I think he meant to say what he said. :D
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Gotta side with Kingpb on this.

Just because a whole big bunch of people are incorrect, does not mean we have to excuse their ignorance.
Electrical Engineering is a very precise discipline. There is a difference between Resistance and Impedance. There is a difference between Energy and Power. There are reasons why the appropriate nomenclature is " 208Y/120 Volt ".

How many times in this forum do we see replies such as " ? what exactly do you mean?", or " ? do not understand what you're trying to say."
Many times this is due to the inappropriate use of abbreviations, slang, computer shortcuts, and, even improper technical terms, etc.

Let this forum be an educational tool that allows the vast majority to attempt learn the trade properly. It costs nothing to be correct.

Is the world more, or less 'safe'? Don't know. It is certainly a poorer place whenever improper language, or incorrect technical information are deemed acceptable.

How would you like it if the vast great number of people started calling you "Chucky-Baby"?

Anyway - I would like to see the final results of the study.

db

(Don't call me Dave Baby)
 
This is alot like saying "Five S box" instead of "Four and Eleven Sixteenths box". I'm with Charlie on this. There are numerous examples of this stuff in our trade and we all seem able to communicate OK. Sometimes the slang works better than the formal nomenclature.

Who really says "Luminaire" when talking to a customer for crying out loud.:)
 
barclayd said:
Gotta side with Kingpb on this.
How would you like it if the vast great number of people started calling you "Chucky-Baby"?

(Don't call me Dave Baby)
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I've always wanted to be called Chucky-Baby ! (unfortunately, one of the guys that I work with already has that one taken)
 
bkludecke said:
Who really says "Luminaire" when talking to a customer for crying out loud.:)
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Some customers might have a different idea of what a 'fixture' or a 'can' are.
There is a post over on the contractor's forum wondering exactly what a "Lamp" is. I don't think it is unreasonable to use proper terminology with customers. If you're working off of a specification, it's probably better to use the term 208Y/120 Volt, than to just say 'I need some 220'.

By the way - Ricky Baby - when you use the word 'current', do you mean, like, right now? or amps & stuff?

db
 
If you're working off of a specification
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"off of" is incorrect grammer. you should have said "If you're working off a specification. . ".

Let's get it right people! :D


sorry, I had some hardcore english teachers in school. :D
 
Barclayd. I would have to agree with you that, when doing commercial or industrial work, it may be better to use the more formal language of trade lingo. But when I'm doing a job-walk on a large custom home with the homeowner we all seem to be more comfortable keeping it simple and in plain english.

When I'm dealing with an architect or engineer all bets are off.
 
Slang

Slang

barclayd said:
Some customers might have a different idea of what a 'fixture' or a 'can' are.
There is a post over on the contractor's forum wondering exactly what a "Lamp" is. I don't think it is unreasonable to use proper terminology with customers. If you're working off of a specification, it's probably better to use the term 208Y/120 Volt, than to just say 'I need some 220'.

By the way - Ricky Baby - when you use the word 'current', do you mean, like, right now? or amps & stuff?

db
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Is there a place to get a copy of, or a book that explanes the slang?
 
220/221 said:
I don't EVEN want to know what you are talking about.:confused:
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The reference is in relation to IEEE C84.1 currently revised/reaffirmed in 2005 titled, "Electric Power Systems and Equipment-Voltage Ratings
(60 Hertz)"

The first three purposes of the standard, I believe sum it up:
(1) Promote a better understanding of the voltages associated with power systems and utilization equipment to achieve overall practical and economical design and operation
(2) Establish uniform nomenclature in the field of voltages
(3) Promote standardization of nominal system voltages and ranges of voltage variations for operating systems

I truly think that the only reason that 120/208 and 277/480 became accepted was due to individuals not being properly trained in the correct usage (C84.1 has been around since 1954). Apparently, since this standard was reaffirmed in 2005, and the fact that 120/208V and 208Y/120 V were not considered the same, then I have to think agree with the standard then are in disagreement.

Looking through (pdf search) of the NEC 2008 version I would have to say that the NEC is also promoting the correct usage :D

Often, change happens simply out of awareness.
 
I just checked out the American Electrician's Handbook and by golly, they use the 480Y/277 and 208Y/120 nomenclature. Funny I never noticed it before.

When this subject was brought up, I was thinking it was a bunch of **** but now I am changing my mind. Still, if someone tells me 277/480 I will know what they mean.
 
This (480/277-208/120) was brought to my attention some time ago when I wrote reports I varied from 277/480 to 480/277, so I made a change in the company we all use 480/277, some guys still write 277/480 and I just correct it in the final report (and ask them again and again to adapt). The secretaries did not understand the change, but adapted.


DID ANYONE HERE FROM Rick?
 
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