Looking for Inspectors Opinion.

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stickboy1375

stickboy1375

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Litchfield, CT
I had this debate with my boss and his silly comment today. :roll: (of course its tough to have a debate with someone thats never been wrong in his life and makes one miserable employee)


Is it your responsibility on rough inspection to make sure everything is to code before sheetrock is installed ( lets say for example a 2' wall thats missing the required receptacle) or to only check off whats been installed that it meets code.

IMO, its not your job to babysit an EC, but to enforce the code as spelled out in the NEC.
 
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I look at rec spacing at rough and final because we all know that GC move the doors around sometimes and they don't think about rec spacing.

Had a GC add spice racks on each side of the cooktop and created 2-14" spaces on each side of the range and the GC was pissed when the electrician had to add the rec's. :D HA HA HA :D
 
1st. Hopefully your boss doesn't read some of your posts. :grin:
2nd. As an inspector, I try to catch everything, but, being human, I miss a few. If I saw a missing outlet or something small like that, and I knew you, I would pass the job & just note it on the inspection card. I'm also a combo inspector, so I'm looking at several other trades work. Depending on how many other correction items there are, also determines how I pass or fail a job. Hope this makes sense.

Ron
 
Stick I am with you ..... however the answers will be all over the map. In many areas the inspectors do more then check for NEC compliance they also check for plan compliance.
 
stickboy1375 said:
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Is it your responsibility on rough inspection to make sure everything is to code before sheetrock is installed ( lets say for example a 2' wall thats missing the required receptacle) or to only check off whats been installed that it meets code............
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In my past job as an inspector, as an employee of a private, third-party inspection agency who contracted with electrical contractors to examine their work for code compliance, it was absolutely required of me to look for defects. A 24" wall that required a receptacle outlet, and was overlooked, was a citeable offense. Nothing in my job description gave me any inherent right or priviledge to waive the rules I was hired to enforce.
My reports were then forwarded to the building official who trusted me to provide accurate details of violations, so that they could be remedied prior to the CO being issued later on. :smile:
 
Actually the missing outlet on the 2' wall section is a code violation and would be written up as such.

As Bob said your answers will be all over the map. Here if the plans called for copper subfeeds and you ran aluminum we would write it up as we inspect to the plans. Now if the EE says that it's no problem we will pass it, but he may have speced copper for a reason. I know that many on this site say it's not my job to inspect to the plans, but since we plancheck almost every project then I know that if you follow the plans you should be in compliance, unless of course I missed something, but like your boss I never make mistakes.:D
 
yep

yep

stickboy1375 said:
I had this debate with my boss and his silly comment today. :roll: (of course its tough to have a debate with someone thats never been wrong in his life and makes one miserable employee)


Is it your responsibility on rough inspection to make sure everything is to code before sheetrock is installed ( lets say for example a 2' wall thats missing the required receptacle) or to only check off whats been installed that it meets code.

IMO, its not your job to babysit an EC, but to enforce the code as spelled out in the NEC.
Click to expand...
210.52 (A)(2) and like R.C. mentioned, if an inspector knew the E.C. and figured he would make the correction, I too, would sign it off knowing that if the E.C. was busy and it got covered up, he would have to go fishing before the final. Yes, its required by OUR national electric code.
 
Looking for Inspectors Opinion

Looking for Inspectors Opinion

stickboy1375 said:
I had this debate with my boss and his silly comment today. :roll: (of course its tough to have a debate with someone thats never been wrong in his life and makes one miserable employee)


Is it your responsibility on rough inspection to make sure everything is to code before sheetrock is installed ( lets say for example a 2' wall thats missing the required receptacle) or to only check off whats been installed that it meets code.

IMO, its not your job to babysit an EC, but to enforce the code as spelled out in the NEC.
Click to expand...

IMO The ec is required to do his work in accordance with the nec,should the inspector miss something on the rough or even worse accept a violation because he knows the ec, does not exempt the ec from doing a code compliant installation.
 
Scenerio:

Your local AHJ has adopted the 2002 NEC, but not all of it. Your required to arc fault protect any circut supplying general purpose outlets in a bedroom of a single family dwelling.
You know you have to do this and have been doing it since you knew. Now you know the code in 2002 requires all electrical in a bedroom of a single family dwelling to be arc fault protected but your AHJ only wants the general purpose outlets to follow that code.
You re-wire an old knob and tube house as well as wire an addition done to this same house, including a second floor.
Now your following the NEC but also what your AHJ wants.
You wire all the bedroom outlets on a 2 wire HR to assure you can install an arc fault breaker to meet code. You wire any and all lighting circuits on a 3 wire HR to save money on wire but also time.

Your rough-in passes.
On trim out your AHJ asks if the light circuits in the bedroom are arc fault protacted.
You answer: Um, no,, it was not required as far as I knew.
Your AHJ tells you: We are requiring any circuit in bedrooms to be arc fault protected.


In my opinion, the inspector best ask questions about the wiring on rough-in and inform me of any code that is now being enforced.
 
aftershock said:
In my opinion, the inspector best ask questions about the wiring on rough-in and inform me of any code that is now being enforced.
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IMO, it is the electrician/electrical contractor's responsibility to know what code cycle his permit was filed under.

It is not like this is a mystery - you know when you file the permit.... :confused:
 
aftershock said:
Define code cycle please.
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The 1999 NEC, the 2002 NEC, etc.

The jurisdictions around here are clear about the NEC cycle - and local amendments - a permit is filed under.

The code requirements don't just change without notice.

For instance, Baltimore county changed to the 2008 NEC for permits issued 9-1-08. We knew about this several months in advance.
 
JohnJ0906 said:
The 1999 NEC, the 2002 NEC, etc.

The jurisdictions around here are clear about the NEC cycle - and local amendments - a permit is filed under.

The code requirements don't just change without notice.

For instance, Baltimore county changed to the 2008 NEC for permits issued 9-1-08. We knew about this several months in advance.
Click to expand...

Well, out here where I am from, our local AHJ adopts what they wants from the NEC and I find out what was adopted when I get turned down.
 
my opinion on the matter;

it is the job of the EC to make sure the rough-in installation will meet code when finished. the inspector should only check that what is installed at the inspection meets code requirements. i don't think inspectors should be wasting time measuring wall spaces and verifying everything on the prints at rough-in. if it is a written requirement of the inspection department that they do so, then so be it. its very easy to overlook something when the walls are still open, i have found. i don't think the inspection dept. should be liable if something comes up missing during the final. it was the EC's job to put it there, and the inspectors job to make sure it was compliant.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Is it your responsibility on rough inspection to make sure everything is to code before sheetrock is installed ( lets say for example a 2' wall thats missing the required receptacle) or to only check off whats been installed that it meets code.

IMO, its not your job to babysit an EC, but to enforce the code as spelled out in the NEC.
Click to expand...
When I make a rough electrical inspection I try to catch anything that is not in compliance with the code. If receptacles are not on a 2' wall I will write a violation. Many times I have made a rough inspection and found that the owner has roughed in for 2 basins in the bathroom and the electrician only roughed for one. The owner changed their mind after the electrician left. I write a violation so that the electrician can correct prior to drywall. It's a lot easier to install on rough than on finish. On occasion while making another inspection in the area I will run into the electrician and inform him of the violation and he will go correct it and on my way back I will remove the violation. An inspector can go the extra nine yards for an EC but they should never approve something that is not there or code complient.
 
SEO said:
Many times I have made a rough inspection and found that the owner has roughed in for 2 basins in the bathroom and the electrician only roughed for one.
Click to expand...

Just to keep things clear for newbies reading as long as the one receptacle is within 3' of each basin there is no violation. :smile:
 
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