Loose ground wire causing problems?

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Eddy Current

Senior Member
Our home oven was acting strange and going on and off, and the digital clock would come on for a second and then go dim. My dad said he fixed it and that the ground wire was loose inside the oven where it hooks up, im not sure if he knew which wire he was talking about. Im pretty sure he fixed the neutral but he insisted it was the bare ground wire. I didn't think a loose ground wire like that could cause such problems.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
He probably connected the neutral to ground bond in the appliance and now you have neutral current imposed on all equipment grounding conductors.

He "made it work" but did not "fix the problem". There is likely still a bad neutral connection someplace. At the very least if/when you unplug this appliance the problem will return.

Sorry I read OP again and was misunderstanding situation. There was still a neutral problem but I intially thought he made a neutral -ground bond that solved neutral problem throughout the house - I see it was just a neutral problem with the appliance. Most of what I said still is valid though. Unplugging the appliance will not cause a problem with the rest of the house though. I got a little carried away with my response because I have seen a range or dryer bonding jumper be the only thing carrying neutral for the whole house before - unplug the appliance and you have no neutral.
 
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Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
I've never seen a wall oven or range wired with a neutral. Was this an error by the original installer or are some manufactures using a neutral connection now?

My electronic clock and control won't work without a neutral. I wire all mine with a neutral. most of the controls are 120V.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I have never seen a residential wall over or range that DIDN'T have a neutral.

I have seen ranges that don't use a neutral, but still have a place to terminate that lead of the cord. They also have the bonding jumper connect to that lead for where 3 wire applications are allowed.
 
I've never seen a wall oven or range wired with a neutral. Was this an error by the original installer or are some manufactures using a neutral connection now?


Welcome to the forum!!

Maybe you're thinking no ground wire. We used to be able to run 2 hots and a neutral with no ground wire to ranges, stoves, ovens, dryers etc. The neutral and ground were bonded at the appliance. It's been a long time since we could legally do that.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
ther


Probably 3 wire aluminum cable and your father is calling the bare conductor a ground when it is actually the grounded conductor (neutral).

Was common practice to use SE cable for ranges, ovens, cooktops. Three wire circuits were permitted and were the normal install except for mobile homes that required 4 wire circuits. The bare conductor in the SE cable was the only grounded conductror brought to the appliance and it carried any neutral current necessary as well as grounded the frame of the appliance.

NEC still permits this for existing installations, but has required separate neutral and equipment grounding conductors for new installations since 1996 (I think - possibly 1993).
 

haskindm

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Accepted practice was to "neutral ground" ranges and dryers. There is no ground wire installed and the neutral was used to ground the frame. Your father repaired the neutral and everything should be fine. This practice is no longer allowed in new installations, but was standard practice for many years and existing installations are "grandfathered" in. My underrstanding is that it was originally allowed during World War II to conserve wire.
 

gndrod

Senior Member
Location
Ca and Wa
old method-new appliance

old method-new appliance

I should add that i didnt see the actual wires and that the house was built in the 70's.

As mentioned earlier, check to see if the hardwire is Cu pigtailed terminated to a SEU Al home run at the oven outlet. If the intermittent re-occurs, tightening up the connection at the service panel terminal bar ground may be part of the problem.
 
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