Loss of power

[hhsting]

If jockey pump loses power then pressure would not be maintained.

Few questions:


1. Assume No fire and jockey pump losses power. Would this result in fire pump to start even if there is no fire?

2. Assume jockey pump losses power first. After the loss of power their is a fire. Sprinkler wants to start but not enough water pressure. Would this result in Fire pump to start or no?

3. At what point would fire pump start scenarios #1 and #2?

 

[Hv&Lv]

Few questions In response to your questions in relation to your numbers.

1. What is the purpose of jockey pump?

2. What is the purpose of jockey pump?

3. What is the purpose of jockey pump?

 

[hhsting]

Few questions In response to your questions in relation to your numbers.

1. What is the purpose of jockey pump?

2. What is the purpose of jockey pump?

3. What is the purpose of jockey pump?

Maintain pressure?

 

[Hv&Lv]

Maintain pressure?

Expound on that answer…

 

[hhsting]

Expound on that answer…

I am not fire protection engineer so i dont know

Where are you getting at?

 

[Hv&Lv]

I am not fire protection engineer so i dont know

Where are you getting at?

You don’t have to be a fire protection engineer to know.

What am I getting at? I’m trying to help you by getting you to look for and learn the answers to do your job you are paid for by tax paying citizens rather than get your answers from an electrical forum by professionals that are not compensated by doing your job for you…

 

[hhsting]

You don’t have to be a fire protection engineer to know.

What am I getting at? I’m trying to help you by getting you to look for and learn the answers to do your job you are paid for by tax paying citizens rather than get your answers from an electrical forum by professionals that are not compensated by doing your job for you…

Dont you think I already looked.

Thats why I am asking experts here. I dont know it and i didnt find it

 

[roger]

Dont you think I already looked.

Thats why I am asking experts here. I dont know it and i didnt find it

Then it's over your head and you should simply tell them it's out of your scope and knowledge.

Roger

 

[hhsting]

You don’t have to be a fire protection engineer to know.

What am I getting at? I’m trying to help you by getting you to look for and learn the answers to do your job you are paid for by tax paying citizens rather than get your answers from an electrical forum by professionals that are not compensated by doing your job for you…

You all think i have well paying job. I dont get paid that much either less than electrician makes and way less than private sector.

Sorry i cant pay you i dont make enough to pay for my own bills

I really would really appreciate if someone here knowledgeable would like to help me assists

 

[Hv&Lv]

I dont get paid that much either less than electrician makes

But you dont want to help then dont

I really would really appreciate if someone here knowledgeable would like to help me assists

I’m trying, but you don’t get it. You pose a question and ask “what article says I can do this”?
As long as I’ve been here I haven’t seen anyone answer a test question yet without some input from the OP.
your questions are like test questions.
tell us why you think something is and why, with articles and the reasoning, and then you’ll get some guidance to the answers you seek..

 

[hhsting]

I’m trying, but you don’t get it. You pose a question and ask “what article says I can do this”?
As long as I’ve been here I haven’t seen anyone answer a test question yet without some input from the OP.
your questions are like test questions.
tell us why you think something is and why, with articles and the reasoning, and then you’ll get some guidance to the answers you seek..

There is no nec section that covers post #1 its general electrical question on how something works

 

[Hv&Lv]

There is no nec section that covers post #1 its general electrical question on how something works

Fair enough..

Jockey Pump Requirements & Sizing - NFPA 20

Jockey Pump Requirements & Sizing - NFPA 20

www.fps-eg.com

 

[tom baker]

What, NFPA 20? I mistakenly referred to this as 620. For my first and only fire pump I learned a lot from NFPA 20. There is a reference section that explains the requirements.
nice drawings as well.

 

[hhsting]

Fair enough..

Jockey Pump Requirements & Sizing - NFPA 20

Jockey Pump Requirements & Sizing - NFPA 20

www.fps-eg.com

That actually doesnt help post #1 questions. Or at least I didnt get how maybe it helps explain post #1 questions. Fire pump and jockey pump work together somehow

 

[augie47]

Won't have a bearing on your electrical drawings. If curious, "Google" "WHAT IS A SPRINKLER SYSTEM JOCKEY PUMP". There is a fair amount of information.

 

[GoldDigger]

From a fire Q&A site: "NFPA 20 and NFPA 101 contradict each other on this. 20 says jockey pumps never need backup power, but 101 says standby power is required for jockey pumps only in a high-rise building."

The purpose of the jockey is to provide static pressure to the sprinklers so that the controller can sense the pressure drop when a head opens. It only has to run occasionally to overcome leakage or re-pressurize the system after maintenance operations.

For this reason, as long as the system leakdown time is long enough the jockey pump is not critical during power outages. If you have a multi-day outage, like PG&E fire safety shutdowns, you may need backup power for the jockey pump during that interval.

A high-rise building may have a much higher static pressure requirement to cover basement to penthouse and may have higher leakage. That may in turn justify backup power to the jockey pump.

So to your 3 questions:
1. The controller responds to rapid pressure changes. A slow leak will just leave the system unable to respond to an actual fire.
2. See above. The residual pressure in the system will allow the controller to detect a head opening, The jockey pump will have a max flow rate less than that of a single head, so that it cannot maintain pressure when a head opens. It does not contribute to the sprinkler flow during a fire.
3. The main pump will not start during case 1 and will start when a head opens in case 2.

 

[Fred B]

If jockey pump loses power then pressure would not be maintained.

Few questions:


1. Assume No fire and jockey pump losses power. Would this result in fire pump to start even if there is no fire?

2. Assume jockey pump losses power first. After the loss of power their is a fire. Sprinkler wants to start but not enough water pressure. Would this result in Fire pump to start or no?

3. At what point would fire pump start scenarios #1 and #2?

Maybe this will help

What Are Jockey Pumps and How Do They Work? - Flow Tech News

Houston fire pump distributor Flow-Tech Industries gives a brief overview of jockey pumps and how they work. Jockey pumps Houston, TX.

flow-tech.com

 

[Jraef]

Having been a Fire Pump technician for a couple of years, I can attest that in case 1, if the power outage is long enough, the main Fire Pump WILL come on, even without a fire. A pressure switch is a pressure switch. Whether the static pressure drops slowly or quickly is irrelevant. It’s the risk people have to accept if they chose NOT to add a jockey pump at all, which happens more than you would think. Assuming it’s not a high rise with high pressure, the risk is that it needlessly wears out the Fire Pump and when you really need it, it fails on you. Some cheap landlords opt for taking that risk.

But, as was said, the pressure loss is (hopefully) very slow, Jockey Pumps often don’t come on for weeks or even months. So many people don’t add the Jocky Pump to the emergency loads on a backup generator.