mtnelectrical
Senior Member
- Location
- Essex, New Jersey
Is there any listed wire we could use for undercabinet lights, inside the walls (12 volts)
Low volatage undercabinet lighting
- Thread starter mtnelectrical
- Start date
- Status
mtnelectrical
Senior Member
- Location
- Essex, New Jersey
that's it. There is no other wire we could use?
MC. EMT/IMC/PVC/GRC & THHN.
If you're asking about the 'zip', or lamp-style cord usually packaged with UC pucks lights, no.
See 400.8.
mtnelectrical
Senior Member
- Location
- Essex, New Jersey
no,
I remember couples years ago an inspector mention there was a wire that was listed for inside walls, and I am not talking about puck lights that are sold on HD stores
I remember couples years ago an inspector mention there was a wire that was listed for inside walls, and I am not talking about puck lights that are sold on HD stores
mtnelectrical
Senior Member
- Location
- Essex, New Jersey
I'm sorry, you are right , I meant cable with 2 wires in there for low voltage wiring that it could be concealed in walls
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
There are certainly CL2 and CL3 low-voltage cables, such as in-wall speaker wire. Is there a readon they couldn't be used?
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I've only ever used NM, but before using speaker wire I'd want to make sure that it's rated for the continuous load being put on it with lo/vo lighting.
BTW, is anyone else noticing that the insulation on Ambiance wire is pretty junky lately? I've been having problems with it peeling off when separating the two wires.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
Low voltage wire CL2 - CL-3
They work fine size the wire for Voltage drop it's very critical especially with solid state power supplies and Halogen lights.
Low - vo cable is the only way to go.
Make sure you put a divider in the box if you share a junction box.
They work fine size the wire for Voltage drop it's very critical especially with solid state power supplies and Halogen lights.
Low - vo cable is the only way to go.
Make sure you put a divider in the box if you share a junction box.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I can easily find CL2/3 and plenum-rated speaker wire in as large as 12ga easily, both 2- and 4-conductor, and probably 10ga with a bit of effort.
mthead
Senior Member
- Location
- Long Beach,NY
Low voltage undecabinet lighting
Low voltage undecabinet lighting
---Why is it that the words speaker wire keep coming up -oh yeah!because it's listed for use as 'speaker' wire.
much the same as that "malibu" u/g wiring that the supply houses will sell along with a puck lite package is listed for use "underground"-not in the walls.
Got to tell you - 'I've allways used this wire",and "the salesman said it was ok" don't carry much weight.
Sort of like the time I said to the Trooper-"Well yeah it says 25mph,but everybody else was going 55mph too"--all that got me was a look that said "You sayin' I'm not doin' my job boy? That was long before I became an inspector but I learned that the "Used to,never before,the other guy said," type of argument just doesn't really work in life.
The answer is usually in the instructions or the listing or the white book.
Unfortunately-especially with pucks-it probably won't be the answer you want.
I'll also say that most inspectors that I know wish there was an easy solution to this situation-I don't like pucks-12volts or not they burn VERY hot but the h/owners are still sold on them and it wears on us going thru this everytime.
Low voltage undecabinet lighting
---Why is it that the words speaker wire keep coming up -oh yeah!because it's listed for use as 'speaker' wire.
much the same as that "malibu" u/g wiring that the supply houses will sell along with a puck lite package is listed for use "underground"-not in the walls.
Got to tell you - 'I've allways used this wire",and "the salesman said it was ok" don't carry much weight.
Sort of like the time I said to the Trooper-"Well yeah it says 25mph,but everybody else was going 55mph too"--all that got me was a look that said "You sayin' I'm not doin' my job boy? That was long before I became an inspector but I learned that the "Used to,never before,the other guy said," type of argument just doesn't really work in life.
The answer is usually in the instructions or the listing or the white book.
Unfortunately-especially with pucks-it probably won't be the answer you want.
I'll also say that most inspectors that I know wish there was an easy solution to this situation-I don't like pucks-12volts or not they burn VERY hot but the h/owners are still sold on them and it wears on us going thru this everytime.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
not all Cl-2 and three is rated as Speaker wire.
For under cabinet lighting supplied from a class 2 power supply, speaker wire can be installed concealed if it is listed and marked CL2 or better as permitted by 725.61(E)(1) and marked in accordance with 725.82(L).
IMO.
IMO.
Last edited:
iMuse97
Senior Member
- Location
- Chicagoland
We used heavy black wire, that otherwise looked like "speaker wire." This was quite a few years back, and it was "approved" by the AHJ in the toughest locality around here. I'll see if I can find some of it.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
I am curious as to 310.10 . What part does this have to do with our application ?
We have 70 C Cl-3 and Cl-2 wire. It is rated for low voltage applications. It's not twisted like speaker Cl rated.
Are we doing something wrong.
We have 70 C Cl-3 and Cl-2 wire. It is rated for low voltage applications. It's not twisted like speaker Cl rated.
Are we doing something wrong.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Wouldn't the CL2 or CL3 cable need to be listed for use as part of a low voltage lighting system?
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
From the Seagull Lighting website:
"...In other words, if the 10/2 stranded, 105? cable is used, the jumper wire must be of the same gauge e.g., 10 gauge romex or equivalent."
To me, it's unclear what exactly they mean by equivalent. Would it be so hard to just list they wire they would like to see used in their "system?" Also, as I was trying to nail something down in the NEC last night, I came across a part in the low voltage sections that read (paraphrased) "number of terminals in device shall match the number of conductors in cable assembly" which seemed to imply that we'd need to use 12/2 or 10/2 without ground, since none of the systems I've seen have or are allowed to have a ground screw terminal. Hey, I'm all for technical accuracy in the code book, but when it comes to indoors low voltage lighting it reads more as technobabble than jargon IMHO. I also think it's poor practice on the planning end to design a system that uses the same yellow or orange NM for 12 volts as for 120/240V.
"...In other words, if the 10/2 stranded, 105? cable is used, the jumper wire must be of the same gauge e.g., 10 gauge romex or equivalent."
To me, it's unclear what exactly they mean by equivalent. Would it be so hard to just list they wire they would like to see used in their "system?" Also, as I was trying to nail something down in the NEC last night, I came across a part in the low voltage sections that read (paraphrased) "number of terminals in device shall match the number of conductors in cable assembly" which seemed to imply that we'd need to use 12/2 or 10/2 without ground, since none of the systems I've seen have or are allowed to have a ground screw terminal. Hey, I'm all for technical accuracy in the code book, but when it comes to indoors low voltage lighting it reads more as technobabble than jargon IMHO. I also think it's poor practice on the planning end to design a system that uses the same yellow or orange NM for 12 volts as for 120/240V.
- Status