Low voltage lighting

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george t. everett

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In the November issue (no. 158) of finehome building there is an article on installing low voltage undercabinet lights. The electrician who wrote the article says he likes to use outdoor landscape wire (SPT) to fish in the walls from the transformer & the light fixture. How can they publish this when it is not code compliant?
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

George T. I share your concern but the problem is most mags have a disclaimer in the front of it that claims to remove the liability of what is published in it and leaves the liability up to the person who wrote the article. The problem is no one is watching and they get away with it and we should try to contact the mag in question and let them know of the violation and the hazard of publishing wrong info. I have sent many e-mails to mags just because of this. Some offer me a subscription to watch out for this for them. But I always decline. As I have enough to watch out for.
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

The damage is already done.And if you were him would you own up to this or simply come in here just like all the other sparkies?
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

Now when Mr homeowner wants you to do this install he thinks your an *** for telling him no. :roll:
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

If MR homeowner calls me he either wants my advice or he doesn't.No way will he tell me what to do or how.If he is so smart why did he call me?So he shows me the article.Would tell him it is valuable and to put in that small room off the hall
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

I have seen prior editions where they will post the mistake from the month or two before.
Hurk I give you credit for the email, lets see if they contact you.
I am also going to email them - strength in numbers.

Pierre
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

Just got a reply back to the E-Mail I sent about the error and here is what it said:

Dear Hurk,

Glad to see that you're paying attention. As you may imagine, about a
thousand others wrote in with the same comments.
Well, maybe not quite a thousand...

Apparently it's permitted here in Connecticut. While local building codes
vary, our readers don't seem to at all.
The upside of the "letter storm" is that we were introduced to an excellent
electrician's forum at Mikeholt.com.

Thanks again for paying attention and caring enough to write.

Sincerely,
Dan
Click to expand...
I had told him that I wasn't the one who descovered it but oh well.
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

Does not the code only cover a certain voltage and up.. Like 60volts..(drawing from memory)

I dont think the code covers 12 or 24 volt.
Which is what most low voltage lighting contains.
Therefore is not covered by the code>

Just asking....
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

John the code covers all kinds of systems under 120 volts.

But for low voltage lighting systems they have devoted a specific Article.

ARTICLE 411 Lighting Systems Operating at 30 Volts or Less

The rule that is broken by using the low voltage cable in the wall is.

411.4 Locations Not Permitted.
Lighting systems operating at 30 volts or less shall not be installed where concealed or extended through a building wall, unless using a wiring method specified in Chapter 3,(2) within 3.0 m (10 ft) of pools, spas, fountains, or similar locations, except as permitted by Article 680.
Click to expand...
While these systems are low voltage they are not always low current.

Many of the transformers for these systems can provide 25 amps of current.
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

What exactly is the code violation here. Could someone please cite an article? Thanks.

Jason
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

Jason the post before yours and 400.8(B)(2)

400.8 Uses Not Permitted.
Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:
(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
(3) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
(4) Where attached to building surfaces
Exception: Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with the provisions of 368.8.
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

While I agree with Wayne's reference to 400.8(B)(2) which makes the use of flexible cords a violation for permanent wiring, we do not even have to go to article 400.

411.4 Prohibits using any wiring method outside of chapter 3 (Articles 300 to 398) for concealed low voltage lighting system wiring methods.

In short if you want to conceal low voltage lighting system wiring you must use the same wiring techniques as you are using for line voltage wiring.

NM, MC, AC, Raceway, whatever the building requires for the line volt wiring use the same for low volt lighting systems.

[ January 28, 2004, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

Originally posted by george t. everett:
In the November issue (no. 158) of finehome building there is an article on installing low voltage undercabinet lights. The electrician who wrote the article says he likes to use outdoor landscape wire (SPT) to fish in the walls from the transformer & the light fixture. How can they publish this when it is not code compliant?
Click to expand...
I am confused about the code requirements for landscape lighting.

300.5 (B) says: "All underground installations shall be grounded and bonded in accordance with article 250". However, article 411.5 (A) says: "Secondary circuits shall not be grounded". Do these two articles conflict in the case of an underground low-voltage secondary lighting circuit?

Also, where does it say what kind of wire is appropriate for low-voltage landscape lighting when that wire is to be burried? Article 411 doesn't seem to address it. According to table 400.4, SPT is for damp locations, not wet locations, which would be necessary for landscape lighting. Also, SPT is for pendant or portable use according to that same table, and I can't see arguing that landscape lighting is portable when the stakes are driven into the ground and the wire is burried. So it would seem that SPT is not appropriate for most landscape lighting applications. Why did the quoted article refer to SPT as outdoor landcape wire? Is UF wire required instead?

Jason Rand
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

I don't think the code covers 12-24V installations, but would the wire itself need to be listed for in-wall use?
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

Originally posted by treysail:
I don't think the code covers 12-24V installations,
Click to expand...
The code covers those voltages and much more.

Specifically relating to this topic article 411 is right on target.

ARTICLE 411 Lighting Systems Operating at 30 Volts or Less

411.1 Scope.
This article covers lighting systems operating at 30 volts or less and their associated components.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

Article 411.4 tells us that lighting systems under 30 volts must use a chapter 3 wiring method, or else the wire cannot be run through walls. One allowable method is to use UF cable, since UF is permitted by article 340.10 (4) to be used just like romex, which, or course, can be run through walls. So, it is permissible to use "landscape wire" through walls, if that "landscape wire" is UF. However, the Fine Homebuilding article seemed to be suggesting that type SPT "landscape wire" be used. (I didn't read the FH article, so I'm just going by the quote at the beginning of this thread.) This is doubly misleading, since SPT is not a landscape wire at all, as far as I can see. Secondly, SPT cannot be used in walls, which has already been pointed out.

Recently we wired some low voltage lights in a kitchen and used some landscape wire. The wire we used had "underground low energy lighting" printed on it, but it did not say UF anywhere. In fact, I think it said FT-2, if I remember correctly, but I could not find that wire type in any of the tables in the code book. The catalog we order the wire from says that the cable is listed for direct burial, but I'm not sure if that makes it a UF or not. If it is a UF cable, then it would be permissible, but it doesn't appear to be, even though it seems to be a direct burial cable. This is very confusing to me, since I thought that any cable that is listed and labeled for direct burial is, by definition, a type UF cable. Does anyone know about this?

Jason Rand
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

Jason
Your confusion is normal, we will try to help you in your quest to completely understand this subject.
250.22(4) Lighting systems [secondary circuits as provided in 411.5(A)]
This is where the NEC states in Article 250 that the grounding of the secondary of listed low voltage lighting is not to be grounded - just as Article 411 states the same, so there is no conflict.
When installing low voltage landscape lighting outdoors, the cable you mentioned is listed for the purpose and is acceptable. That same cable cannot be used indoors if it is installed inside the wall cavity, or concealed by the finish of the construction. It can be installed along the surface, such as along the bottom of the cabinet.

Pierre
 
Re: Low voltage lighting

Thank you, Pierre. I understand the grounding requirements now.

It seems that you are saying that the low voltage landscape wire I described is not a kind of UF wire, even though it is listed and labeled for direct burial. Would you agree?

Jason Rand
 
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