petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Anyone use these lugs? Price seems right. I got some samples and they look like a decent lug.
Lugs direct
- Thread starter petersonra
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Are they UL486 listed? If not there is no way that I would buy them.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
most are. it appears this is the internet sales outlet for IHI
It appears as if the answer to be that maybe they are UL486 listed. Where is this acceptable in the NEC?
It may be that this question is to be avoided out of a fear of knowing what the answer is. What inspector anyway would inspect terminals for their listing. Out of sight out of mind.
Ul486 requires that a terminal be tested for temperature rise, pull tests, etc when used with listed wire when torqued to specification. Is it acceptable to the NEC to use Non-UL terminals?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
What code section requires the use of "listed" terminations?
tmpldi
I didnt see it that way - as far as appearing that some are UL listed - "most are" could mean -other than - the Lugs we are talking about.
and all the lug testing is usless unless the install is correct anyway right - maybe order some and see.
I know the 1st thing I did was look for the UL - Yup its there.. No Fear.
I didnt see it that way - as far as appearing that some are UL listed - "most are" could mean -other than - the Lugs we are talking about.
and all the lug testing is usless unless the install is correct anyway right - maybe order some and see.
I know the 1st thing I did was look for the UL - Yup its there.. No Fear.
Great. My only concern is what guarantees the integrity of the lug. UL486 includes are very specific set to testing from the types of wire such as class A or B stranding, torque specifications, length of wire in the test, temperature rise of the lug under test, a pull test to verify that the wire is secure in the lug, etc. Using a lug that is not subjected to these test can result in a catastrophic failure.
This link is a copy of the tests the are required to receive a UL 486 listing.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=p-m6cXJ9N2_QgPY9bI0okA&bvm=bv.49967636,d.aWc
May it be like installing a non UL components such as a relays in a field assembled control panel?
May it be covered in 110.3 (B), 110.8, and 110.14 and (A)?
UL486 has very specific testing that must be completed before a lug can be listed. I discovered the importance of these series of test while following the rabbet trail of a simple lug as supplied on a breaker an OEMs of mine using hypalon wire locomotive/welders type wire. The is actually very little if any documentation regarding the type of wire which is allowed to be terminated in a lug. My research lead me to UL486 and the importance of class B and C standing, temperature rise and pull tests for a given terminal and a set of wire sizes.
After reviewing these test procedures I would be very reluctant to apply lugs that did not have a UL486 listing. In my tenure in the industry I have seen many lug failures including those where my OEMs had been using hypalon wire.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
In general, the NEC does not require the use of listed products. I don't see where the code requires the use of of listed components when field assembling a control panel.
It does require that some things be listed, for example light fixtures and raceways and their fittings. 110.3(B) does not require the use of listed products, but does require compliance with the listing and labeling instructions if you use a listed product. I don't see how 110.8 requires the use of a listed product. I see nothing in 110.14 that requires the use of listed terminations.
That being said, some AHJs use 110.2 to require the use of listed products.
I also understand why someone would want to use a listed product over one that is not listed, but I just don't see anything in the code that directly requires the use of listed terminations.
Then we should'nt be concerned if the Lug is UL - or is UL stamped then correct..
I looked on the self - we have a bunch, all - UL - none of them say UL486 Listed, I know the Lugs we have were not tested by UL but are mfg accordingly
to meet the standard, I know the Lugs we purchased at Lugs Direct have the Stamp as well - Everythings fine.. I think a valid point was made to match the Lug to the wire.
I looked on the self - we have a bunch, all - UL - none of them say UL486 Listed, I know the Lugs we have were not tested by UL but are mfg accordingly
to meet the standard, I know the Lugs we purchased at Lugs Direct have the Stamp as well - Everythings fine.. I think a valid point was made to match the Lug to the wire.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I didn't say that. I said that the code does not require that the lugs be listed. The listing lets you know that at least a sampling of the lugs have been tested by testing lab and that they meet the requirements of the standard. While non-listed lugs may have been manufactured to meet the meet the standard you do not have independent verification of that.
I don't think that the standard that a product has been tested to is normally marked on the product.
I can see what you are saying Don. It may be that I know too much about the importance of using UL listed components and have assumed that the NEC has required that components be tested by a nationally recognized testing agency. I am aware if the importance of UL486 testing but it appears as though the NEC would allow knockoffs that circumvent the cost of such testing. Unless the manufacturer has documentation that confirms that their terminals meet UL testing requirements I would use caution in using a terminal simply because a fraudulent UL label can be stamped on the terminal. It appears as though the terminal in question in this series of post are UL listed making it a mute point.
It's good to add another terminal manufacture as they will provide more completion.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
some are only recognized, if you look closely, especially the neutral bars.
I want UL listed to 486 so I can use them in a UL508a control panel.
Yes i know you didnt say that... I was making a general statement of -no need for concern - since the topic went from Lugs Direct to a UL discussion
thats all.
Are there terminals that are UL recognized?
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Are they being used as part of a listed panel such as 508?
UL recognized intended ton
UL recognized intended ton
(Sorry about the heading error 'ton.' I'm still trying to beat my NEXUS at its own game of sending messages or changing words on me.)
Interesting. I am assuming that you are using the product as the UL recognized mark is intended. Have you considered this:
UL Recognized Component Mark
These are Marks consumers rarely see because they are specifically used on component parts that are part of a larger product or system. These components may have restrictions on their performance or may be incomplete in construction. The component recognition marking is found on a wide range of products, including some switches, power supplies, printed wiring boards, some kinds of industrial control equipment and thousands of other products.
Just as with the UL Listing and Classified Marks, there are three variations of UL's Recognized Component Mark: one for the United States only, one for Canada only and one for both the United States and Canada. The C-UR Mark is applied to components only used in the Canadian market. Components with this type of Mark have been evaluated to Canadian standards. The optional C-UL-US Component Recognition Mark indicates compliance with both Canadian and U.S. requirements. UL encourages manufacturers distributing UL Recognized Components evaluated for both countries to use this combined Mark, but they may continue using separate UL Recognized Component Marks for the United States and Canada.
Components covered by UL's Recognized Component program are intended to be installed in another device, system or end product. They are to be installed at the factory, not in the field and they may have restricted performance capabilities that limit their use. When a complete product or system containing UL Recognized Components is evaluated, the end-product evaluation process can be streamlined.
The UL component evaluation process may include a construction examination and testing. Guidelines addressing the suitability of a component when used in an end product are noted in UL's test report as conditions of acceptability. This information can also be found in UL's Online Certifications Directory and the UL iQTM parametric databases.
All components carrying the UL Recognized Component Mark are covered by UL's Follow-Up Services program to determine continued compliance with UL's requirements
UL recognized intended ton
UL recognized intended to be installed at the factory and not in the field.
(Sorry about the heading error 'ton.' I'm still trying to beat my NEXUS at its own game of sending messages or changing words on me.)
Interesting. I am assuming that you are using the product as the UL recognized mark is intended. Have you considered this:
UL Recognized Component Mark
These are Marks consumers rarely see because they are specifically used on component parts that are part of a larger product or system. These components may have restrictions on their performance or may be incomplete in construction. The component recognition marking is found on a wide range of products, including some switches, power supplies, printed wiring boards, some kinds of industrial control equipment and thousands of other products.
Just as with the UL Listing and Classified Marks, there are three variations of UL's Recognized Component Mark: one for the United States only, one for Canada only and one for both the United States and Canada. The C-UR Mark is applied to components only used in the Canadian market. Components with this type of Mark have been evaluated to Canadian standards. The optional C-UL-US Component Recognition Mark indicates compliance with both Canadian and U.S. requirements. UL encourages manufacturers distributing UL Recognized Components evaluated for both countries to use this combined Mark, but they may continue using separate UL Recognized Component Marks for the United States and Canada.
Components covered by UL's Recognized Component program are intended to be installed in another device, system or end product. They are to be installed at the factory, not in the field and they may have restricted performance capabilities that limit their use. When a complete product or system containing UL Recognized Components is evaluated, the end-product evaluation process can be streamlined.
The UL component evaluation process may include a construction examination and testing. Guidelines addressing the suitability of a component when used in an end product are noted in UL's test report as conditions of acceptability. This information can also be found in UL's Online Certifications Directory and the UL iQTM parametric databases.
All components carrying the UL Recognized Component Mark are covered by UL's Follow-Up Services program to determine continued compliance with UL's requirements
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