Luminaire Box

[scnkapc]

A builder recently told me that a dining room chandelier does not need a junction box, but rather it can be just attached directly to the joist. Several others have told me that there must be a junction box, especially since a wire was run from this area to another light in the ceiling. Can you tell me if this was a code violation and should the builder come back and install a junction box?

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

A box is absolutely required. 410.36

 

[raider1]

In addition to 410.36 also take a look at 300.15.

Chris

 

[scnkapc]

Those articles are great. However, they are talking about support and "shall be permitted" to be supported by conduits etc......It doesn't say ?shall be required" for mounting purposes.
What about cable assemblies (romex) having to be mechanically connected to boxes for the purpose of concealing joints?
This guy is arguing that he stapled the romex to a ceiling joist, screwed the mounting bracket thru the drywall into the ceiling joist and used the canopy for a junction box.
I know that it is not legal I just cannot find it in the NEC.
Please explain more?????.

 

[jumper]

Those articles are great. However, they are talking about support and "shall be permitted" to be supported by conduits etc......It doesn't say ?shall be required" for mounting purposes.
What about cable assemblies (romex) having to be mechanically connected to boxes for the purpose of concealing joints?
This guy is arguing that he stapled the romex to a ceiling joist, screwed the mounting bracket thru the drywall into the ceiling joist and used the canopy for a junction box.
I know that it is not legal I just cannot find it in the NEC.
Please explain more?????.

I think you need to reread 300.15.

300.15 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, or Fittings ?Where Required.
A box shall be installed at each outlet and switch
point for concealed knob-and-tube wiring.
Fittings and connectors shall be used only with the specific
wiring methods for which they are designed and listed.
Where the wiring method is conduit, tubing, Type AC
cable, Type MC cable, Type MI cable, nonmetallic-sheathed
cable, or other cables, a box or conduit body shall be installed
at each conductor splice point, outlet point, switch point, junction
point, termination point, or pull point, unless otherwise
permitted in 300.15(A) through (L).

 

[raider1]

Those articles are great. However, they are talking about support and "shall be permitted" to be supported by conduits etc......It doesn't say ?shall be required" for mounting purposes.
What about cable assemblies (romex) having to be mechanically connected to boxes for the purpose of concealing joints?
This guy is arguing that he stapled the romex to a ceiling joist, screwed the mounting bracket thru the drywall into the ceiling joist and used the canopy for a junction box.
I know that it is not legal I just cannot find it in the NEC.
Please explain more?????.

300.15 Requires a box when using NM cable at each conductor splice point, outlet point etc...

The NM cable must be spiced to the conductors from the luminaire so that splice must be made in a box. Also the box where the luminaire is connected to the premise wiring system is defined in Article 100 as a lighting outlet so again 300.15 requires a box for the lighting outlet. The fixture canopy is not a junction box.

Many moons ago it was standard practice to install light fixtures as you have described. But that was back during the knob and tube era.

Chris