Lutron RadioRA

[sparky_magoo]

I inherited a house with a Lutron RadioRA system today. It is two years old. I programmed the masters for the first time today. Most of it went well, but I experienced some strange things.

Does anyone have comments on this system? The wiring is simple. I would like to endorse this setup.

What do you'all think of it.

My boss is gun shy, but wants to sell more of it.

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[kbsparky]

Expen$ive toys for those who have more money than they know what to do with.

But, hey, if they are willing to part with some of their hard-earned money on those systems, more power to you!

The main problem with some of those systems is they are too sophisticated for those who can afford it, thus your dilemma. :roll:

 

[e57]

The wiring is simple.

What wiring???? It RADIO....

I love and loath it... The early versions sucked IMO, but it has gotten a LOT BETTER. I have not had some of the earlier range issues - although they say 40' you can get a bit more, and the repeaters a lot more. But the range is garanteed... Best to stick in it whenever possible.

I have a few tricks with the stuff - but nothing no one else has done...

• Remote location multiple dimmers - often with RA Graffik Eyes if four or more.
• Lots of fun places to hide repeaters, cabs, trick toe kicks, basements, attics - dimmers too if you want. Remote dimmers drives the price up with an easy install on high dollar mark-up for keypads - but show your customer a 6-gang plate as you explain the cost...
• But here's the big one! Take all of the stuff home a day or two before you're about to trim out the job. Wire it all - just temp. everything - and lightly screw it all to a peice of plywood and do all the programing except the final light levels right there in your garage or shop. Then label them all and put them back into labeled boxes. WHY? Because you look like a moron marching all over the house when you program this stuff. This way, you go in, put the devices in and they work! Sure you can do a lot of the programing out of a Chronos unit - if there is one on the project, but you still have to go bouncing all over the house to initialize every device in several steps. This way it is all laid out in front of you....

So - what are your "strange things"?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

These switches are very expensive so put regular switches in first incase you have a short. Make sure everything is working properly and then install the Radio RA switches. Lutron will offer free tech support to program these. If you try to use the Homeworks system they won't even sell you the product unless you are certified in it.

 

[sparky_magoo]

So - what are your "strange things"?[/quote]

I always hit the all-off button before entering program mode.

The "closet" master turned on the front porch light. No reason why. Different areas.

The dining room master turned on much of the living room, one story below. Again, no reason.

These problems cleared after messing around with the masters.

Four of the slave switches won't talk the masters. At each location, there are other switches which do talk to the masters.

I also experienced various lock-up problems while programming the masters. These things were the easiest things I have ever programmed. There should not have been problems.

On a side note, my boss was very clever in hiding the switches in closets and cabinets.

 

[e57]

It should not matter what lights are on while you are programing. No need to "All OFF" - When you enter the programing mode for that master you can check the assignments of dimmers and switches for each scene by the LEDS. Turning them all off can help you not get confused about what you are doing while programing, but IMO not necessary.

Lights assigned to a master anywhere in the house - even one in a nearby building can be operated from anywhere that is programed to do so. I'm assuming this system was previously programed? Or may have devices that have been programed before. I recently removed an RA dimmer from the kitchen and mistaken it for a regular Meastro and installed it in a bathroom - everytime the owner operated the kitchen lighting it operated the bathroom light - he almost asked me to keep it in there just for pranks. :smile:

(Did your Boss accumalte these from left over jobs - my old boss did...) Do you have two systems via a 'Chronos' bridge? (if so there may be 'Phantoms' set up in it.)

Slave switches (Accessory Dimmers) do not interact with the masters at all - only with the dimmer or switch that they are wired to, and only for the lighting associated with that dimmer. (IMO this is one of the dumbest parts of this system, and least expensive.) The intent of these devices is for an inexpensive way of interacting with a single device in a typical 3/4-way situation - in say a hallway. (These are the only items in the system that have a wired connection...)

I've never had one lock up on me, but I have gotten seriously lost in the programming of larger existing systems. Which meant walking around taking notes on room/scene, device assignments and levels before I could even start programming. I suggest you do this....

Personally, after dealing with commercial systems like Lithonia and many others where all of the programming is done in one place or on a screen - I can find the Radio RA style of "Go touch this and that" interface a little mind numbing. But nothing livens up a job site like the "Flash Button" Add a little music and you got a regualr disco.

Edit to add link.

 

[sparky_magoo]

All of the parts were new.

The system was not previously programmed. We were waiting for feedback from th HO on how to set up the scenes and never got it. I was out there for other reasons and was told to finish it.

I started by labeling all of the switches. I then put the five scenes for each master on paper.

On some of the masters, when I press one button, other LEDs illuminate. Why might this be?

I have four switches which won't talk to the masters. This seems like a very high failure rate. I don't know if they ever worked. Tech. support told me to goto the repeater. I couldn't find it. The guy who wired the house left and started his own company. The boss will get the local for me.

 

[Jljohnson]

My best guess is that the switches that will not communicate with the system were not "learned" into the system. You must find the repeater, set to the the proper mode to aquires switches, learn the switches into the repeater, then try your system out again. If it is a very large home, you may need to add a repeater.

 

[sparky_magoo]

It is a very large home, but all of the RadioRA is concentrated into a relatively small area. Other switches in the same area work fine.

I was only given excerpts from the manual for assigning switches & dimming levels. The boss didn't expect trouble.

Your explanation seems plausible, because I doubt that I have four bad switches.

When I locate the hidden repeater, I can call tech. support for more help. I do hate wasting a companies tech. time when I am ignorant about a particular product.

 

[sparky_magoo]

How do the repeaters work? Do they wire into 120VAC to repeat the radio signal? My boss said the system works across A & B phases. If the repeater is on A phase, how does the signal jump past the nuetral onto B phase?

Please be patient if I am clueless about this system.

BTW, this two year old remodel was a 200 amp to 400 amp upgrade. We also installed a 10 KVA genset w/ an ATS. Some of the RadioRA switches are on the 100 amp E-panel & others are on one of the two 200 amp sub-panels.

 

[e57]

Scuz me, but editing your message is the easiest way to address the issues - not to be rude.... :smile:

All of the parts were new. That doesn't sound right if there is programming that you did not do - that is turning an other lights... It may be possible that the HO tried to mess around if you left the book laying around - bad idea. 'Two Cooks in the kitchen' on the programing just confuses both cooks IMO....

The system was not previously programmed. We were waiting for feedback from th HO on how to set up the scenes and never got it. I was out there for other reasons and was told to finish it. If nothing was EVER programed - then Nothing would work on the system.

I started by labeling all of the switches. I then put the five scenes for each master on paper. Good move there...

On some of the masters, when I press one button, other LEDs illuminate. Why might this be? When any light is set for any identical level that matches a room or scene on another master the LED's of both will light up. So if you assign a light on one master's button to 100%, and that same light is on another master's button at 100% - both buttons LED's on each of the masters will illuminate. Solution: On one of the masters change the light level slighly to say 90%... This way, in the system it doesn't come up as a match.

I have four switches which won't talk to the masters. This seems like a very high failure rate. I don't know if they ever worked. Tech. support told me to goto the repeater. I couldn't find it. The guy who wired the house left and started his own company. The boss will get the local for me. You are going to have to find this repeater, or Chronos. Some very important initial programming is done there, and it is also very usefull for troubleshooting. (Flash and Beep) I am very surprised you got anything to work with the system NEVER being programmed before - most of the important first steps are done at the repeater or Chronos. Either of those two types of units may/are the bridge for the distance between other items that are not within 30' of eachother. If it is a chronos these items are not programmed you may need to go back to factory defauts and start again... You might also have to do the same if it is a repeater.

Otherwise, I would check to see which model number these 4 non-working switches are. Just so we are talking apple to apples. RA-8ANS-** is an RA switch... RA-AS, and RA-AD are "Accessory" switches and "Accesory" dimmers - they have no "RADIO" actually in them - these controls are wired... They will only control the single RA dimmer or RA switch they are connected to. If they are actually RA-8ANS, or a RA dimmer.... They need to be learned by the master, and it may be out of range due to this missing repeater....

Anyway, it sounds as if you are going to be spending some time on this - let us know if you have more question or need more help, or if it all works out for you.

 

[e57]

How do the repeaters work? Do they wire into 120VAC to repeat the radio signal? My boss said the system works across A & B phases. If the repeater is on A phase, how does the signal jump past the nuetral onto B phase?

Please be patient if I am clueless about this system.

It is all RF (Radio) controlled... Phases - even buildings, rooms, areas - even from different tranformers... It works if in range from the device or repeater - which has a much wider range... This repeater may be hidden, or from the sounds of it - missing from site all together.... It looks like a 6x6 white box with antennas - usually hidden, and wall mounted in a closet or cabinet, and has a plug-in transformer. This is a pretty key item - you're gonna have to find it, or replace it! Repeater.

http://www.lutron.com/CMS/CMSSystem_entry.aspx?appid=1054&id=6967
Look at the "RadioRA Setup Guide" In english of course...
Design guide (other usefull info there) Even more helpfull info

 

[sparky_magoo]

All of the parts were new.

The customer was unlikely to have messed with it. She doesn't seem to care much. She goes to the switches & turns on lights manually.

I don't know what the initial installer did. I haven't spoken with him. He may have set up the repeater. My boss will contact him. They are still on good terms.

I was only given photo-copy exerpts of the manual.

Perhaps some of the anomilies I experieced were due to previous programming. It would seem strange because I had masters controlling lights in diffferent areas.

Upon my first arrival, the all on/off function worked. I can't swear if the four bad switches were working. I thought everything turned off & on, but I may have missed the four in question.