LV License and Pulling Permits/Liability in CT

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Eddie Ohm

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Would like some opinions on the following situation, as I have received varying answers from local and state DCP persons.
Would LOVE some definitive answers!
I understand somewhat off topic regarding NEC, so please let me know if not appropriate.

I have an E1 (Electrical Contractor) license. I am currently an employee for an A/V installation company (whole house audio/video, home theater, home automation, etc.).
The owner (my boss) of the company holds a V9 license (V9 = Non-Technician, Owner of TV/Radio Repair Facility. No test/hours required, just $100 fee).
He has asked me to pull a permit to appease a local town building department. The permit is for Low Voltage work on a 18000 sq ft new contruction residential home.

All the LV wiring has been done already by our "crew" of technicians (none of which has any type of license). I was not present whatsoever during any of the prewire.

If I pull the permit, am I liable for the work that was done and any consequence of it being done incorrectly?

My boss has been calling DCP quite a bit about being able to pull a permit with his V9 license, being told that he can't.
He did finally speak with a "different guy" who said yes, he can pull a LV permit with his V9 Radio/TV Repair license.
He still prefers I pull the permit.
My other question involves my boss being allowed to pull a permit with a V9 license.
That would then make him elegible to actually do the work, of which he has no clue (he is a business man).
Theoretically, can my grandmother then pay $100, get a V9 license, pull a permit, and wire all Phone/Cable/Speakers/TStat/Security in a brand new 18000 sq ft home??

Any thoughts or help on this would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks for the reply.
Well, he was able to pull a permit with his V9 license.
He has never even drilled a hole before.
He's insisting that the whole trade license thing is a farce and a joke. I'm wondering if he's right?...
 
I dont see in the definition of Television & Radio Service Work Licenses, where installing low voltage wiring would be allowed?


Probably why your license is needed....
 
Eddie Ohm said:
Thanks for the reply.
Well, he was able to pull a permit with his V9 license.
He has never even drilled a hole before.
He's insisting that the whole trade license thing is a farce and a joke. I'm wondering if he's right?...
Click to expand...


I don't think its a joke at all, its to make sure qualified people are doing the installs...
 
Ok, being from next door in NY this is how I understand it:

You have an E1 contractors license. You can have your own business or work for another company regardless of whether they have any license. You are responsible for any electrical work done. If the company doesn't have you (or another E1 or an C5 if he only does LV) then the company cannot do any electrical work.

Anybody working for the company doing general electrical work works under you and each must have an E2 Unlimited Electrical Journeyperson license.

Anybody working for the company who just does LV work works under you and must have a C6 Limited Electrical Journeyperson license.

I suppose your boss can pull a permit but it would have to have your name on it (like a homeowner). That doesn't mean that he can do any work.

The real problem I see is that the "installation crew" isn't licensed.

-Hal
 
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Indeed, an unlicensed crew is asking for big trouble, and potential for big fines, particularly on a job as big as an 18000 sq ft home.
 
Agreed, on all counts.
I do not think trade licensing is a joke at all. I'm insulted and offended that my boss thinks this, and also that he was able to pull a permit with his V9 license. The reason for this post in the first place.

He tells me that he could now do the actual work if he wanted to, seeing that he was able to pull the permit (even though he doesn't know a jack stud from jack) and all of the liability of any of his mistakes or improper wiring would fall to the inspector, since that is the inspectors job.
His argument is "if the inspector does his job and inspects, what does it matter who does the wiring...it's up to the inspector to sign off on the job. The builder should be able to pull all trade permits, then call the inspector when all trades need inspection".

I'm really disappointed that he got the permit...I wanted him to be turned down to validate my understanding as well as my hard earned license!
 
A point I forgot to bring up:
The guys on the "installation crew" are very interesed in working toward some kind of license.
As I do mostly programming, I don't really want any of the guys working "under" my license. As far as I'm concerned, I'm just another employee there who happens to have an E1. If I didn't tell anyone, no one would even know. To take the inititive and "sign off" on hours for the other guys doesn't sit well with me, as I'm never with any of them to verify that they are being trained, etc. Besides, the requirements for L6 say you must be in the "employ" of an L5 for 2000 hours, etc.
I take my license and experience very seriously, have great respect for at least the intent of the whole process, and will not be part of willy-nilly sign-offs unless I have truly passed on my knowlegde in a Master-Apprentice capacity.
So that leaves the question, for the guys, of how do they start logging hours to become legal...their (our) employer has no L5/L6 or E1 license for them to be in "the employ of a properly licensed individual". He has a V9...basically, a businessman who owns a TV repair shop.
They are not in my "employ" either.
Very frustrating because he is so ignorant about the whole permit/license/apprentice/journeyman thing, and says if he can't pull a permit, he'll just sue the town for millions for lost work, etc., and they can't enforce any of this stuff.
 
Who was named as the licensed EC on the permit? If it was your boss and not you I would take it up with the permit office. Somebody there is not doing their job. The fact that some clerk there made a mistake does not prove your boss right. Your boss has no license.

You boss's attitude is typical of many in the LV wiring business. He is wrong on all counts and is too ignorant to understand why. I don't know what your relationship with him is like so I don't know if it will jeopardize your job if you arrange for an inspector to talk to him. If he wants to be a legitimate business he can't operate the way he is. Sooner or later its going to catch up with him and cost him. Other than fines and criminal charges one very good reason for being properly licensed is that without it you have no standing in court should you have to sue a customer to collect on any money they owe. So you actually would be doing him a favor by getting him an education.

-Hal
 
As I do mostly programming, I don't really want any of the guys working "under" my license. As far as I'm concerned, I'm just another employee there who happens to have an E1. If I didn't tell anyone, no one would even know. To take the inititive and "sign off" on hours for the other guys doesn't sit well with me, as I'm never with any of them to verify that they are being trained, etc.

Hmmm. I really don't know what to say about that. It sounds to me that because your boss is ignorant he doesn't understand the importance of having you in his employ. You know what your role in the company should be. What would it take for you to do it? Certainly you aren't getting the recognition and I suspect your present compensation has something to do with it also?

-Hal
 
Hal, he was named as the contractor on the permit.
My boss had called the state Dept of Consumer Protection quite a few times only to be told that his V9 was not enough to pull a permit.
He finally got to the head of the DCP dept, who finally said that he thought it was a "gray" area and agreed with my boss(!) that he should be able to pull a permit with a V9!
The DCP head called the town building department in question and told them that my boss "would be showing up to pull a LV rough-in permit, he'll have a V9, which I (the DCP guy) am authorizing as a proper license to pull the permit and do the work".
 
Eddie Ohm said:
The DCP head called the town building department in question and told them that my boss "would be showing up to pull a LV rough-in permit, he'll have a V9, which I (the DCP guy) am authorizing as a proper license to pull the permit and do the work".
Click to expand...
Boy, I should move there! Just think of the fun you could have with some novelty ID... CIA, FBI, Bounty Hunter, Kung Fu Master, etc.

Orlando, Florida resident James Thomas, 44, was recently acquitted of 13 first degree murder charges today, after a jury found that Thomas genuinely believed he was within legal boundaries in killing his victims due to his possession of a novelty "Terrorist Hunting License". (satire) http://www.enduringvision.com/archives/man_justifies_killings.htm

terrorist_hunting_license.jpg



Fake cop nabbed with naughty badge

052504_badge.jpg
 
...sounds like your boss greased some palms...

Oh yeah! I think so too. Gray area? Any idiot that can read can see that a V9 is nothing more than a business license. I would write the DCP head a letter and tell him you are on to him. Knock it off or you are going to go to whoever is his boss and report him.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
...sounds like your boss greased some palms...

Oh yeah! I think so too. Gray area? Any idiot that can read can see that a V9 is nothing more than a business license. I would write the DCP head a letter and tell him you are on to him. Knock it off or you are going to go to whoever is his boss and report him.

-Hal
Click to expand...

I sent a more detailed PM to the OP. I mentioned the possibility that the boss only told him he was able to secure a permit with his V9 because he doesn't want you to think he NEEDS your license, only WANTS use of it, de-valuing his worth in order to take advantage of his own employee.

Then he probably paid another license holder to use his license to secure a permit.
 
bottom line is: if your license is being used (for any reason), then you have at least some liablility. How much the assumption of that liablility is worth, is up to you to decide. Personally if the boss can't qualify, it would seem to me that it would be a perfect opportunity for you to be able to buy into the business. (just my opinion)
 
Then he probably paid another license holder to use his license to secure a permit.

That could be. Eddie, did you actually see a copy of the permit?

Personally if the boss can't qualify, it would seem to me that it would be a perfect opportunity for you to be able to buy into the business.

My opinion too and what I was trying to say above. Your boss can't legally operate without you. The fact also that you are an E1 is a tremendious asset for your boss because he can provide all the electrical work for something like a media room rather than sub it out or rely on the GC to get it done.

This may be what your boss's "attitude" is all about. He doesn't want to pay you your worth or allow you to have any authority.

-Hal
 
Wow, thanks so much for all of the replies

It's good to know there are others out there that agree with me, and, more importantly, understand the laws, rules, etc.

Next week I'm going to call the local town hall to ask about the permit, to see exactly how it's filled out, whose name is on it, etc.

I'll also call DCP to check in further.

Thanks again for all of the feedback (despite this post not really having much to do with NEC per se), and feel free to comment further.
 
This forum is not just about the NEC but your topic really does relate to it. You can't comply with or have respect for the NEC without training and experience. Your boss seems to believe otherwise and that is exactly why your state has the requirements they do.

An inspector cannot be relied on to ensure that all work meets every letter of the code. He doesn't have the time to go over everything with a fine tooth comb even if he could see everything. So there is a certain amount of trust granted by inspectors. You use your best effort to comply with the code and they are there really to keep honest people honest.

So the whole premise from your boss about it not mattering who does the work, the inspector is responsible for making sure that it is safe and meets code is bogus. An inspector is not an insurer. Even if an installation passes inspection, the installer is still liable should something go wrong even years later.

-Hal
 
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