Main breaker required or not

[crtemp]

Is a main breaker needed at an outbuilding (well house)? The feeder will come off of a 125 amp breaker from the main house. My panel will have less than 6 circuits but will be capable of having up to 12. I thought I remembered an inspector telling me once that if the panel was capable of having more than 6 circuits total it required a main but I can't seem to find it in the NEC.
I don't see anything about it in 225.33

 

[ActionDave]

A main breaker is not required just because there are more than six spaces. Sometimes the panel listing will require a main to make it suitable for service equipment.

 

[templdl]

Is a main breaker needed at an outbuilding (well house)? The feeder will come off of a 125 amp breaker from the main house. My panel will have less than 6 circuits but will be capable of having up to 12. I thought I remembered an inspector telling me once that if the panel was capable of having more than 6 circuits total it required a main but I can't seem to find it in the NEC.
I don't see anything about it in 225.33

Is this asn existion installation and you are asking is it acceptable or is a proposed installation and you are asking if you are required to include a main breaker?
If it is a new installation is completitive bid situation where shaving cost is important to get the job or is the owner a cheep skate and wants to save a few bucks?
Personally if it is a new installation just purchase a main breaker panel for a few extra bucks and don't go cheep than there is no question should there be an emergency if power needs to be turned off.
For me it would be a no brasiner unless cost was an issue.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

.... Sometimes the panel listing will require a main to make it suitable for service equipment.

That is correct for most small panels.

Under the 2011 and earlier codes, the second building disconnect was required to be suitable for use as service equipment. The requirement for the second building disconnect to be suitable for use as service equipment was removed in the 2014 code.

 

[templdl]

That is correct for most small panels.

Under the 2011 and earlier codes, the second building disconnect was required to be suitable for use as service equipment. The requirement for the second building disconnect to be suitable for use as service equipment was removed in the 2014 code.

Yes, if that is commonly available. But when you grab a panel that is SE listed to be used as a subpanel don't forget to grab a neutral bar at the same time that you can add for the first insulated and isolated neutral.

 

[jumper]

That is correct for most small panels.

Under the 2011 and earlier codes, the second building disconnect was required to be suitable for use as service equipment. The requirement for the second building disconnect to be suitable for use as service equipment was removed in the 2014 code.

Didn't Dennis help get that changed? I remember him putting in some proposal on that subject.

 

[crtemp]

Is this asn existion installation and you are asking is it acceptable or is a proposed installation and you are asking if you are required to include a main breaker?
If it is a new installation is completitive bid situation where shaving cost is important to get the job or is the owner a cheep skate and wants to save a few bucks?
Personally if it is a new installation just purchase a main breaker panel for a few extra bucks and don't go cheep than there is no question should there be an emergency if power needs to be turned off.
For me it would be a no brasiner unless cost was an issue.

Nothing has been installed yet. I have a main lug panel in my shop somewhere and I'm trying to help out this homeowner as he is way over budget already. Just wanted to make sure I'm following the code. I'll look at the panel here soon but I'm almost certain it will say on it that a breaker is needed to be used as SE.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Yes, if that is commonly available. But when you grab a panel that is SE listed to be used as a subpanel don't forget to grab a neutral bar at the same time that you can add for the first insulated and isolated neutral.

A panel listed as "suitable for use as service equipment" will have an insulated and isolated neutral bar along with a screw that is to be used as the main bonding jumper. You would not install the main bonding jumper, and you would need to add an equipment grounding bar.

 

[templdl]

A panel listed as "suitable for use as service equipment" will have an insulated and isolated neutral bar along with a screw that is to be used as the main bonding jumper. You would not install the main bonding jumper, and you would need to add an equipment grounding bar.

Am I bad. You are so correct. Yes, what I meant was that you need to grab a ground bar with the panel.
Thanks

 

[templdl]

Nothing has been installed yet. I have a main lug panel in my shop somewhere and I'm trying to help out this homeowner as he is way over budget already. Just wanted to make sure I'm following the code. I'll look at the panel here soon but I'm almost certain it will say on it that a breaker is needed to be used as SE.

That makes sense now.
May it be posible to add a 2p breaker with a hold down kit to be used as a main? Stick a 'main' label by it?

 

[crtemp]

That makes sense now.
May it be posible to add a 2p breaker with a hold down kit to be used as a main? Stick a 'main' label by it?

Probably, but then there is more cost involved. I looked at the panel and it said it was suitable for SE as long as not more than six disconnecting means were installed. Looks like it good.