Main Disconnect Outside Building

[Fitzdrew516]

New service to a tenant space (each tenant space has it's own individual service). The service was designed to be 2000A 480/277 and I spec'd a square d QED-2 MSB. We just got back BD comments and the plans reviewer tells me that this particular city has an ordinance that says our service disconnect must be outside.

So normally this wouldn't be that big of a deal, but I have looked like crazy and it doesn't seem like anyone makes a 2000A ground fault protected disconnect other than in a SB (understandable). So how should I go about making this work? I don't want to move the whole MSB out back to the alley (not even sure if the fire department would allow that). The only other thing I can think of is to just get a single QED-2 Main Switch section and put that directly outside, then run feeders from there to the MSB in the electric room.

Any help would be appreciated. Bonus points goes to anyone that can find a 2000A ground fault protected disconnect switch.

Thanks,
- Drew

 

[Strathead]

New service to a tenant space (each tenant space has it's own individual service). The service was designed to be 2000A 480/277 and I spec'd a square d QED-2 MSB. We just got back BD comments and the plans reviewer tells me that this particular city has an ordinance that says our service disconnect must be outside.

So normally this wouldn't be that big of a deal, but I have looked like crazy and it doesn't seem like anyone makes a 2000A ground fault protected disconnect other than in a SB (understandable). So how should I go about making this work? I don't want to move the whole MSB out back to the alley (not even sure if the fire department would allow that). The only other thing I can think of is to just get a single QED-2 Main Switch section and put that directly outside, then run feeders from there to the MSB in the electric room.

Any help would be appreciated. Bonus points goes to anyone that can find a 2000A ground fault protected disconnect switch.

Thanks,
- Drew

See if the accept a shunt trip breaker inside. with a break glass shunt trip button on the outside. I think it is likely they do. But You also don't need a disconnect switch. Your manufacturer can provide you with a enclosed circuit breaker with enclosure to act as the disconnect. The biggest problem with this is to make sure that the meter sockets have separate ground and neutral because most do not.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

See if the accept a shunt trip breaker inside. with a break glass shunt trip button on the outside. I think it is likely they do. But You also don't need a disconnect switch. Your manufacturer can provide you with a enclosed circuit breaker with enclosure to act as the disconnect. The biggest problem with this is to make sure that the meter sockets have separate ground and neutral because most do not.

I’ve never heard of such a thing. Could you point me in the direction of an example or two?

 

[Strathead]

I’ve never heard of such a thing. Could you point me in the direction of an example or two?

https://www.google.com/search?q=shu...=LLbKWKTqDcXemwGGr6rgDQ#imgrc=V_T6qRy1vhcO_M:

most fire departments don't require a little hammer. Most that I have seen are mounted at about 7 to 8 feet. The fireman merely uses his axe pick end and breaks the glass the button is held in by the glass and when the glass breaks it opens.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

The plans examiner emailed me back and told me that they do not allow shunt trip as a disconnecting means.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Can you just install a non fused swirched or do they want the overcurrent protective device outside. The switch gives you the disconnect while keeping everything the same. Since the switch does not have ocp, then you still have service panels in the interior so no equipment grounding conductor is needed between the switch and the panels.

 

[iwire]

it doesn't seem like anyone makes a 2000A ground fault protected disconnect other than in a SB (understandable). So how should I go about making this work? I

The company I work for just uses a single section of NEMA 3R or better switchgear with either a breaker or bolted pressure switch with GFP.

 

[electrofelon]

Keep in mind that above 1200 amps, it will be called a bolted pressure switch. Seems like it boils down to getting one of those, a circuit breaker and enclosure, or breaking it up into several smaller service disconnects (in which case you could use circuit breakers, or regular safety switches because you dodge the GFP requirement).

Do you need metering provisions?

Seems like a supply house gear guy could set you up with the most affordable option.

 

[iwire]

Seems like a supply house gear guy could set you up with the most affordable option.

:thumbsup:


To expand on what a bolted pressure switch is

The bolted pressure contact switch uses bolts and/or cams to hold the contacts together under much more pressure than the old spring contact type switch.

http://www.ecpowersystems.com/resou...portant-features-of-a-bolted-pressure-switch/

 

[Fitzdrew516]

The company I work for just uses a single section of NEMA 3R or better switchgear with either a breaker or bolted pressure switch with GFP.

I think that’s my only option at this point.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

Can you just install a non fused swirched or do they want the overcurrent protective device outside. The switch gives you the disconnect while keeping everything the same. Since the switch does not have ocp, then you still have service panels in the interior so no equipment grounding conductor is needed between the switch and the panels.

That would satisfy the disconnect requirement I would think, but then your “service” wouldn’t be protected. Isn’t that required?

 

[Fitzdrew516]

Keep in mind that above 1200 amps, it will be called a bolted pressure switch. Seems like it boils down to getting one of those, a circuit breaker and enclosure, or breaking it up into several smaller service disconnects (in which case you could use circuit breakers, or regular safety switches because you dodge the GFP requirement).

Do you need metering provisions?

Seems like a supply house gear guy could set you up with the most affordable option.

Definitely need metering provisions. I’m thinking the single disconnect would be the best option design-wise because I’m still going to have the main switchboard inside the electric room so I’d rather feed that SB with one feed rather than multiple.

 

[iwire]

That would satisfy the disconnect requirement I would think, but then your “service” wouldn’t be protected. Isn’t that required?

It would be something the AHJ would have to be good with. It might be worth asking but at this size I really doubt there is going to be much savings if they even make a non-fused bolted pressure switch.

It sounds to me that at the least you are stuck with at least one section of outdoor switchgear containing either breaker or a BPS with fuses and GFP for either method.

I do not see pricing on this type of equipment so I do not know if the BPS or a breaker is more affordable.

 

[electrofelon]

Definitely need metering provisions. I’m thinking the single disconnect would be the best option design-wise because I’m still going to have the main switchboard inside the electric room so I’d rather feed that SB with one feed rather than multiple.

Are BPS's available with metering provisions? I assume not, but I dont know much about them. If not, its pretty much gotta be a SB.

 

[charlie b]

I strongly recommend that you start here:

. . . the plans reviewer tells me that this particular city has an ordinance that says our service disconnect must be outside.

Get a copy of that ordinance, and read what it says. This is a "Charlie's Rule" situation, if ever I have encountered one. We really can't help you find a way to satisfy the plans reviewer, unless we know exactly what the rule requires.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

I strongly recommend that you start here: Get a copy of that ordinance, and read what it says. This is a "Charlie's Rule" situation, if ever I have encountered one. We really can't help you find a way to satisfy the plans reviewer, unless we know exactly what the rule requires.

Yeah I looked up the exact ordinance when I got the comment. It definitely requires what he’s saying sadly.

 

[Strathead]

Yeah I looked up the exact ordinance when I got the comment. It definitely requires what he’s saying sadly.

We get used to doing things the way they are done in the area we reside. If this is a typical requirement in the Seattle area then the solutions should be typical also. I now reside in Florida. They barely even know what a sectional free standing gear with a metering section is. In California, for PG and E it is standard for any large service. It really isn't that big a deal to put the Service disconnect in its own enclosure and install it outside. Then the switchgear inside only needs to be main bus only. [edit] I read this and it sounds a little like I am attacking you. I am sorry for the tone. It is just a good jumping place to make my point since you said, "sadly."