Main Meter Panel to new sub-panel with wireway

[quedijo]

California, Unincorporated Santa Clara County. PG&E provider.

Pole from PG&E feeds underground 225ft to house with 4/0 Aluminum to a Zinsco panel with four spaces. Currently has (2) 90 Amp breakers.

Customer is getting solar from another company but they don't do electrical.

Would love to get exception for Like-for-Like with a new panel but don't even bother with PG&E. Clearance to gas meter is closer than the needed 3'.

CUSTOMER REALLY wants the following:

In semi-flush main meter panel, replace 90 Amp breaker with 125 Amp breaker. Install new surface mounted 125 Amp lug sub-panel just to the left of the main meter panel. New 2/3 wire from main meter to sub-panel. Back feed from new sub-panel to existing 90 Amp existing in-house sub-panel.

Can I use as 6x6x36 "wireway" (wire trough) ABOVE both panels to run new feeder 2 THHN copper from new 125 Amp breaker to new lug sub-panel AND new 4 THHN copper on 90 Amp breaker to 2/3 Aluminum IN "wireway" with polaris straight splicers?

 

[letgomywago]

California, Unincorporated Santa Clara County. PG&E provider.

Pole from PG&E feeds underground 225ft to house with 4/0 Aluminum to a Zinsco panel with four spaces. Currently has (2) 90 Amp breakers.

Customer is getting solar from another company but they don't do electrical.

Would love to get exception for Like-for-Like with a new panel but don't even bother with PG&E. Clearance to gas meter is closer than the needed 3'.

CUSTOMER REALLY wants the following:

In semi-flush main meter panel, replace 90 Amp breaker with 125 Amp breaker. Install new surface mounted 125 Amp lug sub-panel just to the left of the main meter panel. New 2/3 wire from main meter to sub-panel. Back feed from new sub-panel to existing 90 Amp existing in-house sub-panel.

Can I use as 6x6x36 "wireway" (wire trough) ABOVE both panels to run new feeder 2 THHN copper from new 125 Amp breaker to new lug sub-panel AND new 4 THHN copper on 90 Amp breaker to 2/3 Aluminum IN "wireway" with polaris straight splicers?

You're solution sounds harder than it needs to be. Put meter main with proper clearance then put a junction box with conduit to meter and 90 amp breakers again in metermain. Polaris together and done. This question sounds a bit diy are you a c10 in California? Or just an hvac tech only if so you might not be able to do a new service I'm not sure but I heard they're not even letting solar guys do them anymore.

 

[quedijo]

Sorry for the late replay. Long day.

20 years doing residential and light commercials HVAC AND Electrical. I personally do not have my C10 (Lazy and was planning on moving to another state for a few years) but work under previous and current company license.

Tesla sub contractors don't do main panels. Like this one and they don't want to go into the Zinsco indoor sub-panel or the main panel. I have done two main panels for Tesla in the last three months and quoted three in the last two weeks. I know some don't do the main panels. The company I work for just informed me "we" are now "authorized" Tesla installers too

Customer is getting whole house backup BUT for some reason, the Tesla contractor is either not thinking straight or not planning on using the Backup Gateway. Frustrating that they don't give a layout of proposed work. THEY want a new outdoor sub-panel they can go to (?!?!).

I originally told the customer the best option is to upgrade the internal sub-panel to a 125 Amp with new feeder aluminum and leave a loop in attic that the solar company can splice to feed indoor sub-panel from the batteries but he's going by what the solar company said. So yes, it's convoluted and stupid. He's a loyal customer of the current company I work for so I'm trying to keep the work for us.

Lastly, current company I work for turns down underground fed panels. We do not have the manpower for these upgrades and PG&E has a ESTIMATED time to do residential underground from 8-18 months out.

Now that that is out of the way... Let me rephrase my question. Can I run two sets of feeder wires in a "wireway" (wire through)?

Picture here -> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1npoo5x6zRRl1PXQCDMMzdcmqAMcS0_ZL/view?usp=drive_link

 

[jaggedben]

Can I use as 6x6x36 "wireway" (wire trough) ABOVE both panels to run new feeder 2 THHN copper from new 125 Amp breaker to new lug sub-panel AND new 4 THHN copper on 90 Amp breaker to 2/3 Aluminum IN "wireway" with polaris straight splicers?

Yes.

...Can I run two sets of feeder wires in a "wireway" (wire through)?

Yes.

...

Customer is getting whole house backup BUT for some reason, the Tesla contractor is either not thinking straight or not planning on using the Backup Gateway. Frustrating that they don't give a layout of proposed work. THEY want a new outdoor sub-panel they can go to (?!?!).

...

Sounds like typical big-residential-solar-company stupidity. Also I'm sure they're looking for someone to point a finger at to avoid liability for the Zinsco. How badly do you need this job?

I wouldn't dismiss the like-for-like exception out of hand; yes it's a pain, but if PG&E does grant it then it's the best outcome for the customer.
Also, one can't have backup without a gateway.

Good luck.

 

[quedijo]

Yes.

Yes.


Sounds like typical big-residential-solar-company stupidity. Also I'm sure they're looking for someone to point a finger at to avoid liability for the Zinsco. How badly do you need this job?

I wouldn't dismiss the like-for-like exception out of hand; yes it's a pain, but if PG&E does grant it then it's the best outcome for the customer.
Also, one can't have backup without a gateway.

Good luck.

Thank you very much.

I have plenty more work, so not "NEEDED", but would like to keep customer as we have another HVAC system bid for this property as well.

I will send a request to PG&E for like-for-like, just that I read up on the "updates" for like-for-like and it REALLY sounds like they DO NOT want to approve any EXCEPT for really narrow exceptions. (Zinsco recalled panels, burnt out panels, insurance forcing replacement ASAP)

I'm running into a bit of a headache with a my sister's house that got me thinking they might be doing the same thing. I have a friend who has a solar company and is going to install 16.5kW system at their house and they proposed a "Hawaiian tie-in". First time I had heard of this, so I started looking into the MESS and rabbit hole of all the "loopholes" and "fixes" to get around (de-rating, Hawaiian tie-in, supply line splice, etc ). I installed a 200 Amp Meter panel 8 years ago before he was even thinking of getting solar. They DO NOT want to adjust usage or get batteries, so my friend just matched bill to production. So I finally decided that I want to replace the panel with the following one:

Product Details - Industry Mall - Siemens USA

Anyways, back to this job, I wonder if they are doing a big production job as well and need me to do a "Hawaiian tie-in" as well but customer just heard another exterior sub panel. Now I really have to talk to the customer and get more information from the solar company.

Additional question if you or anyone reading this post. A few houses I have gone to bid, have the same 4/0 Aluminum laid down. They all had the type of insulation printed as HMW-HDPE. I was able to fine information of the HDPE and UHMW (not HMW) part but not a combination of HMW-HDPE. I know 4/0 Aluminum is rated at 75°C for 180, but I don't find HMW-HDPE listed in any of the insulation charts. I ask in case I can replace the two 90 Amp Zinsco breakers with a 200 Amp Zinsco one and put in a new 200 Amp sub panel. Other wise they make a 175 Zinsco I can use.