Main needed in sub panel in out building

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elecmen

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Electrician
Installing sub panel in out building. There is going to be 3 circuits. Question is a main breaker required by code or can I use main lug panel as long as there in no more than 6 circuit breakers?
 
elecmen said:
Installing sub panel in out building. There is going to be 3 circuits. Question is a main breaker required by code or can I use main lug panel as long as there in no more than 6 circuit breakers?
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Article 225.33(A) allows six switches or circuit breakers grouped in one location or in one enclosure.However the rating of the feeder or branch circuit disconnecting means shall have a rating of at least 60 amps.(225.39).To me that means each of the breakers used as a disconnect have to be rated at 60 amps each.
Rick
 
The problem is that your panel is most likely a Lighting and Appliance Branch Circuit Panelboard, and that requires to be protected by not more than two main circuit breakers.
 
Their has got to be an exception there. I have seen plenty with less then 60 amp breakers such as the range , ac , etc...
However I don't think your allowed to use the 6 motion of the hand on a lighting and branch circuit panel.
 
stickboy1375 said:
The problem is that your panel is most likely a Lighting and Appliance Branch Circuit Panelboard, and that requires to be protected by not more than two main circuit breakers.
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Although if he used all 2 pole 60 breakers, this would be a power panel board, making this senerio inpractable...
 
stickboy1375 said:
I would just install a 60 amp main breaker and be done with it.
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What i'm saying is , if he met the requirement of using the 2 pole 60 breakers, then he would'nt be able to use the panel like he wanted to.I agree , just use the one 2pole 60 and be done with it.Of course the op could be running a 400 amp feeder to a remote building and wants to put in 3 100 amp sub panels with out mains in each of the subpanels.He could used the sub panel with the 3 breakers in it as the disconnecting means for the building.
Rick
 
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RUWired said:
What i'm saying is , if he met the requirement of using the 2 pole 60 breakers, then he would'nt be able to use the panel like he wanted to.I agree , just use the one 2pole 60 and be done with it.
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I understood what you were saying.
 
stickboy1375 said:
The problem is that your panel is most likely a Lighting and Appliance Branch Circuit Panelboard, and that requires to be protected by not more than two main circuit breakers.
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Check out the exception to that section -- no subpanel main needed if there is an upstream breaker protecting it. He said this was a subpanel, so there is most likely a breaker in the main panel which will kill all power to the remote subpanel. That works as long as the breaker is rated at or below the panel amp rating.

As far as the 60A disconnect rating, they clarified in the 2008 code how that is determined. You may add all the breakers ratings together to get the rating of the disconnecting means. So I'd use that as precident if you have three 20A breakers and they say that isn't big enough.
 
unless he is under the '08 code, in which case, I believe there is no such thing as a L&A panelboard.
correct ?
 
jwelectric said:
He also said that was an out building which brings 225.30 throught .39 into the game. The exception to 408 will not apply now.
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Why does 408.xx not apply to an outbuilding panelboard? If its a feeder it has upstream overcurrent protection. What in 225.30 through 39 requires a single disconnecting means at an outbuilding? I see a 6 handle disconnecting means specifically allowed in 225.33(A)
 
suemarkp said:
Why does 408.xx not apply to an outbuilding panelboard? If its a feeder it has upstream overcurrent protection. What in 225.30 through 39 requires a single disconnecting means at an outbuilding? I see a 6 handle disconnecting means specifically allowed in 225.33(A)
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225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment.
The disconnecting means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as service equipment.

Exception: For garages and outbuildings on residential property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap switches shall be permitted as the disconnecting means.

serviceMLO.jpg


Read the part on that panel where it makes the statement;

"SUITABLE FOR USE AS SERVICE EQUIPMENT"
 
jwelectric said:
225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment.
The disconnecting means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as service equipment.

Read the part on that panel where it makes the statement;

"SUITABLE FOR USE AS SERVICE EQUIPMENT"
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OK, so you found a panel that requires an integral breaker. I can show you panels that have similar wording, but aren't so strict. They tend to regurgitate part of 408.36 and actually reference NEC 408.36 by number.

I do agree that it must be suitable for use as Service Equipment. So best choose wiesly when picking a specific panel. Hopefully, manufacturers will finally "get it" in their labeling after seeing the 2008 code language.
 
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