Main service bonding

[Sparky Adam]

-200a single phase service
-Exterior underground feeder to a meter
-Offset nipple from meter to 200a 3R disconnect
-PVC sleeve from back of disconnect to 200a main lug subpanel

-UFER #4
-Ground rod #6
-Gas bond #6
-Intersystem bond #6

Question: We run the UFER gec to the main disconnect neutral and run the other grounds/bonds to the subpanel and then run a #4 from the service disconnect to the ground bar in the sub panel. Building Inspector is telling us that we have to run both the UFER and ground rod GECs directly to the service disconnect. Is there an issue with either way?

 

[LarryFine]

The GECs are supposed to land on the same bus as the neutral where the main bonding jumper is.

That sounds like the main disconnect to me. BTW, you don't need rods when you have an Ufer.

 

[ramsy]

The GECs are supposed to land on the same bus as the neutral where the main bonding jumper is.

When redundant GEC's are found at sub-panels, they can become part of the GES when bonded per 250.32(B).

 

[infinity]

The meter and service disconnect are on the same structure as the sub-panel? The panel feeder has an EGC?

 

[Sparky Adam]

The meter and service disconnect are on the same structure as the sub-panel? The panel feeder has an EGC?

Same building. Service is outside the garage and sub panel is inside the garage, back to back.

The underground feeder is 3 wire single phase.

We run all the grounds/bonds into the sub panel and pass the UFER directly through and into the outside main disconnect. We then run a #4 bond from the service disconnect neutral to the sub panel ground bar.

The ground rod, ISB bar, and gas bond run to the sub panel ground bar.

Inspector wants the ground rod to also run directly to the main disco, but we have that bonded through the #4 bond.

My understanding is that the ground rod is supplemental and the UFER is primary.

 

[Sparky Adam]

When redundant GEC's are found at sub-panels, they can become part of the GES when bonded per 250.32(B).

Which means the #4 we have running from the service neutral to the sub panel ground bar would satisfy that? (our ground rod, ISB bar, gas bond are in sub panel ground bar) so long as our main GEC (UFER) is ran directly to the service neutral.

 

[Sparky Adam]

The GECs are supposed to land on the same bus as the neutral where the main bonding jumper is.

That sounds like the main disconnect to me. BTW, you don't need rods when you have an Ufer.

I've tried to tell local inspectors that we don't need a ground rod, but that's like arguing.

The UFER is the GEC. The ground rod is supplementary.

 

[infinity]

The other electrodes can be connected to the GEC to the CEE via bonding jumpers or directly to the service neutral. I agree with the inspector.

 

[augie47]

Generally speaking I agree with the inspector. Many POCOs require a ground rod regardless of other electrodes present

 

[Sparky Adam]

The other electrodes can be connected to the GEC to the CEE via bonding jumpers or directly to the service neutral. I agree with the inspector.

You agree that a supplemental GEC has to come to the main service disconnect and not to the sub panel ground bar and then through a bonding jumper to the main service?

See photo... The ground rod is going to a bonding bar

 

[Sparky Adam]

Generally speaking I agree with the inspector. Many POCOs require a ground rod regardless of other electrodes present

You agree that the ground rod GEC as supplemental has to go unbroken to the service disconnect and can't stop at the sub panel which is bonded with a #4 to the service disconnect?

 

[infinity]

See photo... The ground rod is going to a bonding bar

The ground rod bonding jumper is going to the structural steel electrode in your graphic.

 

[Sparky Adam]

The ground rod bonding jumper is going to the structural steel electrode in your graphic.

Yes, but the idea is sound. Why would a ground bar be any different?

 

[roger]

Yes, but the idea is sound. Why would a ground bar be any different?

The jumper can originate and end anywhere even on a sub panel ground bar.

 

[Sparky Adam]

The jumper can originate and end anywhere even on a sub panel ground bar.

But can the supplemental ground rod be run to the sub panel ground bar and then that ground bar connected to the service neutral with a #4 wire?

 

[roger]

Odd but IMO yes it can can.