Maintenance person shocked while relamping flourescent fixtures?

[alwinj]

I have an employee who feels that he was shocked while relamping energized flourescent T12 fixtures. When this happened he was standing on a scissor lift and had one hand on the glass of the bulb and the other hand on the reflector of the fixture. He felt the sensation in the hand holding the reflector. The fixture, and all others on the same circuit, was inspected by a licensed electrician and nothing was found to be faulty. Given the scenario this shock does not seem to be electrically possible. I'm just wondering if there is something about flourescent bulbs that I'm not aware of because the employee has been shocked before and is certain that this was the same sensation.

Thanks,
alwinj

 

[mdshunk]

I'd rather think he was guiding in one of the lamp pins when he got shocked, and fabricated this story so that he wouldn't be embarrassed.

 

[chris kennedy]

I'd rather think he was guiding in one of the lamp pins when he got shocked, and fabricated this story so that he wouldn't be embarrassed.

What? A little explination please Marc.

 

[George Stolz]

I imagine touching one of the pins on the lamp when installing it would deliver quite a jolt, if the fixture were on.

 

[brian john]

I have followed up on several fabricated stories, one in particular a building engineering received a flash burn, he stated that it happened when he opened the door of an MCC bucket to take motor amperage readings and it just blew up.

He was at the hospital when we arrived, his helper took us to the MCC and related the story, my apprentice went to spit out his gum and asked me to look in the trash can, low and behold 1/2 a screwdriver tip and a few inches burnt off. The helper fessed up, the engineer was trying to get the starter to pull in manually and slipped.

The mechanic I learned from always told me if you get pulled over speeding do you say OF COURSE OFFICER, I KNOW I WAS DOING 90 in a 35, heck no you lie and say the speed limits is WHAT? NO WAY. It is human nature to CYA.

I have been hired for several projects to investigate burns or shocks and several of them IMOP were fabricated stories, but the owners and insurance companies have to verify the situation.

 

[chris kennedy]

I imagine touching one of the pins on the lamp when installing it would deliver quite a jolt, if the fixture were on.

It's only 600V, don't be a baby.:grin:

Another reason for the 05 addition of 410.73(G)!

 

[iwire]

Another reason for the 05 addition of 410.73(G)!

You will have to pull the lamps and ballast cover to access the disconnecting means.

 

[mdshunk]

I imagine touching one of the pins on the lamp when installing it would deliver quite a jolt, if the fixture were on.

I don't have to imagine. I've done it to myself a couple of times. It's one of those things that after you do it, you say to yourself, "Yeah, probably shouldn't have done that".

 

[chris kennedy]

You will have to pull the lamps and ballast cover to access the disconnecting means.

I hear thats the way fixture manufacture's have adapted to this change.

I have the IAEI 2005 Analysis of Changes and thier illustration shows a switch installed outside each fixture. Having a quick disconnect inside the fixture kind of defeats the purpose IMO, but it does say internal or external.

 

[mdshunk]

I hear thats the way fixture manufacture's have adapted to this change.

Yes, among the fixtures that I've been installing that have featured this disconnect from the factory, the Ideal "ballast disconnect" seems to be the one most universally adopted:

 

[mattsilkwood]

I don't have to imagine. I've done it to myself a couple of times. It's one of those things that after you do it, you say to yourself, "Yeah, probably shouldn't have done that".

ive done it too .thats one of those deals where you look around to make sure no one saw you.
in the words of the great homer simpson"DOH"

 

[480sparky]

in the words of the great homer simpson"DOH"

As in http://www.code-elec.com/content/00/01/53/48/38/userimages/DOOO.WAV

 

[480sparky]

in the words of the great homer simpson"DOH"

As in DOH

 

[augie47]

disconnect

disconnect

Yes, among the fixtures that I've been installing that have featured this disconnect from the factory, the Ideal "ballast disconnect" seems to be the one most universally adopted:

Marc, the black wire alreay looks burnt I'm afarid thats going to be the result of these disconnecting means. I used to do maintenance at a Wal-mart that had these style disconnects...constantly burning up. (left wrong picture..but same point)

 

[iwire]

I used to do maintenance at a Wal-mart that had these style disconnects...constantly burning up.

I am willing to bet there is a big difference.

In your past example I would be willing to bet these connectors where in the circuit feeding many fixtures, in some cases maybe 10 to 16 amps of current.

To comply with the new code these connectors will only be carrying the current of one or two electronic ballasts...very little current.

 

[mdshunk]

Marc, the black wire alreay looks burnt I'm afarid thats going to be the result of these disconnecting means.

I soundly disagree. These ballast disconnects only do one ballast. Maybe two. Very low draw on each. My pictorial examples were brand new connectors. The black ring is for the installer to know which side to insert the hot wire. They do push-in, like Wago's, but there's a very low draw on each. Burning up is not among my concerns, but there are other issues that greatly concern me with these.

 

[augie47]

I, but there are other issues that greatly concern me with these.

such as ? (not a challange, just a desire to be enlightened)

 

[360Youth]

I don't have to imagine. I've done it to myself a couple of times. It's one of those things that after you do it, you say to yourself, "Yeah, probably shouldn't have done that".

Yeah, me too. Oops.

 

[mdshunk]

such as ? (not a challange, just a desire to be enlightened)

My concerns are related to how well these are installed in the field.

The fixtures are coming from the factory with the ballast leads already inserted in the one side of the disconnect. My first concern is that if the field installers don't observe the strip gauge well, there can be exposed copper. This could possibly present a hazard to the person in the future who might attempt to grab ahold of the ballast disconnect to pull it apart, and possibly getting an electrical injury.

Secondly, Ideal is marketing these in bulk loose piece form to be retrofit into existing fixtures as ballasts are changed out, etc. There is a "male" and a "female" half of the disconnect. If the installer was fitting both pieces, he may inadvertatly install the half with the exposed brass blades on the branch circuit half of the disconnect.

I'll grant you that my fears are based on mis-use of the connector, but they're something to keep in mind just the same.

 

[joebell]

Does 410.73(G) apply when replacing ballasts in older fixtures. Should we be installing these quick disconnects?