I am new at this, right now I am writing maybe my 5th or sixth good sized bid, in the neighborhood of $10,000.
I also must add that I did go to engineering school for those of you who like to bash engineers and I will say, that what you learn in engineering school is a different universe from what you actually do and run into in the field as a electrician.
As I posted a few days ago, I was looking at finishing a job that someone else had started. As far as I can tell the other guys under bid the job, all of the work I have gone through so far has been good... I only found one short and 1 room where the lights wouldnt work after a cursory check of the connections.
I have the blueprints and I can read and understand blueprints. So the first thing I did was go through room by room and look to see if everything that was on blueprints was actually in the building. Of course it wasnt. After my thirdh trip through I found that most of what should have been there was there, just not always exactly where it should have been. But it was close enough that it would meet code. For the most part. I made notes on what wasnt there and what wasnt up to code.
Then I walked through and made a list of everything that needed to be completed. Every light, plug,switch, disconnect, fan, every last single solitary thing that was related to electric. Then I made a list of everything that should have been there. Like outside lighting and plugs. I added to this list customer request things like the door answering system.
I made notes on the model numbers of the stoves and stack units so that i could check the amp rating on them. I noted what circuit breakers were missing.
Are you getting my drift here? If had anything to do with electric in any way shape form or whatever it is on my list.
Then I went price checking on all the material that I needed, any special tools that i might need , wire for the door answering system and whatever else.
Then i made a list going floor by floor of everything that needed to be done to complete the unit for oocupancy and to get past final inpsection.
Beside each item i gave a time estimate to complete the task rounded to the nearest number of hours
I also listed the cost of material rounded to the nearest $5.
Then I entered all this information into a spreadsheet. Dont be afraid of spreadsheets. I figured out how to use excel in about 20 mins to what i needed to do. It's really not that bad.
Then I multiplied out my hours column by $35/hr (to low) to $70/hr in $5 dollar increments so that I could see what the total cost would be for 35,40,45, 50, 60 and $70 per hour labor rate.
I am aiming for $45/hr. The price I actually start negotiating at will take things into consideration that, theres very little wire to be pulled, the GC is a friend so I dont have pricks to deal with, these folks are not slow about paying, I need to get it finished in 3-4 weeks and I can with out breaking much of a sweat, there's another one to do next door from scratch and some more factors.
Right now... I mean, I was getting sick of working on this estimate, so i came in here for some relief and when i finish writing this, I am going back to it, I am going over my notes and my list to make sure I have listed everything that needs to go on here and that I need to charge for.
I am listing everything that the owner needs to provide as I go through.
And when I get through a line goes at the bottom that says something to the effect of, if it aint listed above it is an extra, and it will require a signed change order slip from the owner.
I am only this detailed when i am in a cantankerous situation though. In a normal situation like the first estimate i wrote this morning...
I just listed...
2 ceiling fans, customer provides fans
outdoor light
and so on
gave a sum at the bottom
and gave them a schedule of payments
It all depends on how big the job is and who i am dealing with.
But, ounce I got into a really cantankerous situation where both the owners where lawyers.
It ended well, but in a situation like that, they recommended that i do 15 min billing. In other words you list what you have done or are working on in 15 minure intervals for the whole time you are working on the job.
You start out with a guesitmate and if you exceed your estimate ( you make sure you exceed your guestimate) then you can justify why. Unless they want to question the time you spent scratching your head thinking. In which case you settle up onthe time you have in and leave. In cases like this though, you charge enough per hours to make all that paperwork worth it.
But thats just my 2cents worth
I also must add that I did go to engineering school for those of you who like to bash engineers and I will say, that what you learn in engineering school is a different universe from what you actually do and run into in the field as a electrician.
As I posted a few days ago, I was looking at finishing a job that someone else had started. As far as I can tell the other guys under bid the job, all of the work I have gone through so far has been good... I only found one short and 1 room where the lights wouldnt work after a cursory check of the connections.
I have the blueprints and I can read and understand blueprints. So the first thing I did was go through room by room and look to see if everything that was on blueprints was actually in the building. Of course it wasnt. After my thirdh trip through I found that most of what should have been there was there, just not always exactly where it should have been. But it was close enough that it would meet code. For the most part. I made notes on what wasnt there and what wasnt up to code.
Then I walked through and made a list of everything that needed to be completed. Every light, plug,switch, disconnect, fan, every last single solitary thing that was related to electric. Then I made a list of everything that should have been there. Like outside lighting and plugs. I added to this list customer request things like the door answering system.
I made notes on the model numbers of the stoves and stack units so that i could check the amp rating on them. I noted what circuit breakers were missing.
Are you getting my drift here? If had anything to do with electric in any way shape form or whatever it is on my list.
Then I went price checking on all the material that I needed, any special tools that i might need , wire for the door answering system and whatever else.
Then i made a list going floor by floor of everything that needed to be done to complete the unit for oocupancy and to get past final inpsection.
Beside each item i gave a time estimate to complete the task rounded to the nearest number of hours
I also listed the cost of material rounded to the nearest $5.
Then I entered all this information into a spreadsheet. Dont be afraid of spreadsheets. I figured out how to use excel in about 20 mins to what i needed to do. It's really not that bad.
Then I multiplied out my hours column by $35/hr (to low) to $70/hr in $5 dollar increments so that I could see what the total cost would be for 35,40,45, 50, 60 and $70 per hour labor rate.
I am aiming for $45/hr. The price I actually start negotiating at will take things into consideration that, theres very little wire to be pulled, the GC is a friend so I dont have pricks to deal with, these folks are not slow about paying, I need to get it finished in 3-4 weeks and I can with out breaking much of a sweat, there's another one to do next door from scratch and some more factors.
Right now... I mean, I was getting sick of working on this estimate, so i came in here for some relief and when i finish writing this, I am going back to it, I am going over my notes and my list to make sure I have listed everything that needs to go on here and that I need to charge for.
I am listing everything that the owner needs to provide as I go through.
And when I get through a line goes at the bottom that says something to the effect of, if it aint listed above it is an extra, and it will require a signed change order slip from the owner.
I am only this detailed when i am in a cantankerous situation though. In a normal situation like the first estimate i wrote this morning...
I just listed...
2 ceiling fans, customer provides fans
outdoor light
and so on
gave a sum at the bottom
and gave them a schedule of payments
It all depends on how big the job is and who i am dealing with.
But, ounce I got into a really cantankerous situation where both the owners where lawyers.
It ended well, but in a situation like that, they recommended that i do 15 min billing. In other words you list what you have done or are working on in 15 minure intervals for the whole time you are working on the job.
You start out with a guesitmate and if you exceed your estimate ( you make sure you exceed your guestimate) then you can justify why. Unless they want to question the time you spent scratching your head thinking. In which case you settle up onthe time you have in and leave. In cases like this though, you charge enough per hours to make all that paperwork worth it.
But thats just my 2cents worth