Making the switch: Sq. ft. pricing to unit pricing

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brantmacga

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
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Former Child
After reading a lot of you talk about sq. ft. pricing vs. unit pricing, i'm going to give it a try and see how things work. I'm making a list of all the materials i can think of that i use, and all of the service i perform, and i'm putting them into an excel file that my wife is formatting to come up w/ the price. i started writing down all of the labor times i thought it would take to perform each function, and how much wire it would take. i just went and bought an estimating book and i came suprisingly close and even dead on some of their estimates. i've got a lot of questions that maybe some of you could answer. when you figure your labor units cost, do you input the actual labor cost of the guys you're sending to the job, or just keep a flat rate and not let the labor cost of the guys there exceed this price? i've based all mine so far off an actual t&m cost and just hope i can keep close to that figure. on receptacle and switches, do you average out the amount of wire it takes per each, or do an actual amount and just have one higher priced recep or switch for the home run? i'm just doing an average right now of 35' of 14-2 per recep. after including the price of the metal device box, ground clip, device, plate, wire, tape, solder, mapp gas, and labor, i came to a price of $26.75 per recep. i know everyone's cost is different, but does that sound pretty in-line w/ what some of you are doing? for a kitchen outlet, i got $34.16 and this is just for counter outlets being fed from a gfi recep, for which i came to a price of $52.75. i figured longer wire runs on these because there are less of them and i usually have one home run for every 3-4 outlets. thanks for any input. i'll try to keep the questions to a minimum and work this out on my own like i should. i'll probably be back to ask about estimating software. this excel looks like its going to not only take awhile, but i don't think the printing options i need are there.
 
You CAN do it :)

You CAN do it :)

brantmacga said:
i'm just doing an average right now of 35' of 14-2 per recep. after including the price of the metal device box, ground clip, device, plate, wire, tape, solder, mapp gas, and labor, i came to a price of $26.75 per recep. i know everyone's cost is different, but does that sound pretty in-line w/ what some of you are doing?
Click to expand...
Well, you've got some items that differ from mine....35' of wire, mapp gas/solder, etc ....and you cost of $26.75 .

Look at this(top LEFT box):
assembliescb6.jpg

For a typical recpt., my price is $64.07
- labor is $49.35 (.66 @$75, or $64.07 - $14.71),
- materials are at $14.71 (including tax and mark-up)
- or 9.77 (w/o tax & mark-up)

Of course, your labor cost will differ as well as materials (to some degree).

How is your time?
Mine shows just over a half-hour(.66) for a "complete" recept. (box, wire, device, plate, etc). To break that time down further:
- rough is .41
- trim is .25


brantmacga said:
this excel looks like its going to not only take awhile,
Click to expand...

It will take awhile - but you can make it EXACTLY how you want (errors and all :mad:) ....ALWAYS double check your numbers(for each and every assembly as well as each and every item in the assembly) before patting your self on the back.

The way my sheets are set up, there is one page (and one page ONLY) for changing item costs. ALL the assemblies are on another page that is linked back to that item cost list.
This is my unit pricing:
unitpricingur5.jpg

Column A is mutli-colored ONLY for ease of use.
Column E is colored as that is the ONLY place to change $ values.

The next sheet is the actual take-off....this is where all your hard work and errors will appear:
takeoff2fa2.jpg


With the exceptions of boxes 2B,C, D (which ANYONE can change), your take-offs are entered into Column C (starting at C7 in RED)


The sheet ahead of that is the "Job Info Sheet"....on this sheet, you can:
- Entire the job info directly (name, address, block, lot, etc) and the totals from the "take-off sheet" will carry over
or
- Just have the totals carry over from the "take-off sheet" and they will enter automatically into my customer database where the details (name, address, block, lot, etc) are located.
or
- A little of both
BUT

I have yet ANOTHER spreadsheet (the customer database from above) that is "mail merged" to my contract (in MS WORD). I use the second option, but you could do whatever is easiest/works for you.
The way these spreadsheets have been designed is to transfer data between different spreadsheets EVEN if they are not even open. When I open the contract (in Word) all the numbers have been transferred over and I just hit "Print" - with the exception of the "SCOPE" and the actual dollar values written out ($7456.09 will show, you just type "Seven-thousand....)...payment schedules included, etc.

proposalfg3.jpg


You can edit/alter any portion or part of the contract/proposal as you see fit.


It really is a labor of love and a work of art if I don't so myself (oh, wait...I just did.)

brantmacga said:
....but i don't think the printing options i need are there.
Click to expand...
I KNOW the printing options you WANT (forget "need", unless your looking for actual carbon copies) are possible ~ anything is possible....you just don't know how to do it.......................yet...................but you will...........just ask.
 
Hey thanks celtic. i've been playing some more on this excel for awhile now. my wife uses it all the time but i drove her crazy tonight asking all of these questions. i like your setup there. my price may seem low to you, but there is a HUGE difference in labor costs between south GA and NJ. we were about 10 min apart on time. it looks like are material costs are a little different too. i've got less than $10 figured in materials including tax and a very small markup. green helpers start at $6 hour, licensed electricians go for about $12 hr (which is why at 24 yrs old w/ a wife and son i had to do something on my own). our prices are definitely far off, but looking at your screenshots i see my process is pretty close to what you're doing. i've been in business for myself for less than a year, so i've got a lot to learn on this estimating. thanks for the input.
 
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okay. i went to books-a-million and picked up the 'dewalt electrical estimating professional reference'. it was the only book they had on the subject, and has been of some help so far. and it was $20.
 
mapp gas

mapp gas

At first I thought it was a joke but after i asked about the rubber and friction tape and he answered sincerely I realized he wasnt kidding. In my area I havent seen solder splicing in work less than 50 years old. The next step from knob and tube which I do run across quite frequently including today. I have to admit tho I am not sure how I would service this wire other than replacing it. I do personally feel that a solder joint is a much better joint but the rubber and friction tape I am not a fan of. I would still wirenut it for annother 10 cents easy come easy go.
 
brantmacga,

1) You are right in using your actual labor costs.
2) Don't include the homerun wire in your receptacle and switch assemblies. Create a separate home run assembly with different lengths of wire. Include your wire, breaker, supports, etc. for the home run assemblies.

You are on the right track by changing your estimating procedures to reflect a unit cost basis. It's really the only way to determine your exact costs. You do need an estimating program of some sort. It all depends on how much you want to spend and what you want the program to be able to do.

You can use a home made excel spread sheet if that meets your needs. It's cheap but it's also limited in it's abilities. I used an excel estimating program for a number of years but it was frustrating. I could only get it to do so much automatically. It also took considerable time to generate the reports that I wanted. (Don't take any offense Celtic. You did a nice job with what you put together.)

You can also buy one of the available estimating software programs. They are generally going to provide you with more features and better report capabilities.

I'm sure that people on this forum would be happy to tell you about the estimating software that they use. Ask around. Download some trial versions and see what works the best for your application. It really can make a difference in the degree of success that you achieve.

Best of luck.
 
brantmacga said:
after including the price of the metal device box, ground clip, device, plate, wire, tape, solder, mapp gas, and labor
Click to expand...
I also want to know about the mapp gas and solder, along with the metal box and ground clip? Are you doing residential or commercial? If you are doing residential with metal boxes and clips, unless you have a local amendment, you are loosing time and money. I know most every one here swears by the per unit pricing on all their work but I for one stay with sq ft pricing on new construction however it is code min. and then add ons are by the unit. It is easy to miss something on a take off and then explaining that you missed it and your Price changes.The homes I do are in the upper $400,000 range and the contractors I work for know that I wire the house like a $400,000 should be, extra three ways,floor recpt,most times no less than 50 cans and so on. I keep track of all extras and then bill according after rough in
 
IllinoisContractor said:
(Don't take any offense Celtic. You did a nice job with what you put together.)
Click to expand...

None taken.

What I have made is by NO MEANS the "end all, be all" in estimating. I just got a bit frustrated and decided to do it.
It does take some time....but you only get out of it what you put into it....and that takes even more time....and you only have yourself to blame if it doesn't do what you want it do.
 
thanks for the replies. my computer crashed so i've been offline for a couple of days now. anyway, yes i splice and solder all my joints. there is no spring to pop off and no plastic to burn through. i use all metal boxes except for schedule 2 runs i use open low-voltage boxes. metal boxes don't melt and neither do spliced joints (under normal operating conditions). its old school i know, but i was trained by someone who's been doing this for 50 years now and has wired everything from houses to nuclear power plants. i trust what i've been taught. i'm not saying that plastic boxes and wing nuts cause house fires, but they sure don't prevent it. i use wing nuts on fixtures of course, but those joints don't have the entire circuit load running through them. it costs more and it takes longer, but i sleep well and am extremely proud of my work.

recep.jpg


panels.jpg


3gang.jpg
 
Great Post

Great Post

I thought you were kidding it is awesome that you still solder joints could you please share your technique with us I am allways looking for a better way to install this thing we call electricity
 
i'd be glad to. the easiest thing to do would be for me to take some pictures of my work and post them on here for you to see. i'll put it in this same forum. when i get the pics up i'll explain the process i follow. its very easy and most reliable. it doesn't take quite as long as some people think. it takes me less than 30 seconds to cut the wires in the box and make all the joints on a recep. it takes another 30 to solder, tape, and ground clip it. there are a few other EC's in my area that still use this practice as they all trained together in the same union 40 years ago. i went to waycross, ga (place where the big fire is right now) awhile back to do a job and couldn't find a single supply house that knew what a ground clip was. i went to lowes, and a guy there said he thought he'd seen one; about 10 years ago.
 
Celtic you are the man! !!! This helped me with the prob of sqft pricing VS unit pricing. Its gonna take some work to design my own form, but thanks a million.........:smile: :smile:
 
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