marina wiring (table 555.12 clarification)

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wesley1

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Port St. Joe, Florida
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Electrical contractor owner
My question is a simple one. A marina has contacted me about adding 6 shore power pedestals. Each with 2 50 amp 240 volt receptacles on them. Each rec. will be feeding it own slip. Their is a 600 amp 120/240 1phase panel already at the start of the dock . This panel however already has 66 120 volt 30 amp receptacles being fed from it. Table 555.12 says " sum of the rating of rec." When dealing with the 240v it is the same either way but with the 120v 30 amp rec I dont know if i'm supposed to change to volt amps 120vx30a =3600va x 66 receptacles =237,600va derate 40% =95,040 va which =396 amps or simply take the sum of all 66 which is 66x 30 amps=1980 amps x 40%= 792 amps. I believe you would still cange to va but im not sure because 66 already seems like alot to me. I believe that they need another 600 amp panel fed from the 1200 amp main to the base of the dock. to facilitate new load, but you can imagine that the owner is not happy. Also the distance from MDP to dock is 420' and the distance from panel location to last pedastel is 550' any advise on figuring voltage drop would be appreciated. The existing panel is fed with parrallel 350 mcm which did not allow for any at 600 amps during the initial installation. Thanks I'm WES
 
First Point:

You can easily get lost if you do not convert everything to VA, do the additions, and convert back to amps at the end. Here you got lost in your second calculation. Did you note that the second answer, 792, was exactly twice the first answer, 396? A coincidence? Not at all. In your first calculation you went from VA to amps by dividing by 240. In your second calculation you left out the steps of multiplying by 120 then dividing by 240. That is how your second calculation came out twice as high as your first.

Second Point:

There is no ?derating? gong on here. The process of sizing cables takes into consideration two things: (1) How much ampacity do you need? (2) How much ampacity does a given conductor have? The concept of ?derating? is related to the second question, not the first. You are trying to figure out how much ampacity the feeder has to have, in order to supply the loads.

Table 555.12 gives you the ability to size a feeder smaller than it would have to be, if it had to carry 100% of the connected load. It recognizes that not everything will be running at 100% of its capacity at the same time. It gives you ?demand factors? to reduce the ?total connected load? to a ?calculated load,? from which you size your feeders.

Third Point:

When you add the 10 new receptacles, the total becomes 76. That puts you one spot further down Table 555.12. So I would calculate the load as follows:

120 volts times 30 amps times 66 receptacles equals 237,600 VA.
240 volts times 50 amps times 10 receptacles equals 129,000 VA.
237,600 plus 120,000 equals 357,600 VA.
357,600 times a demand factor of 30% equals 107,280 VA.
107,280 divided by 240 equals 447 amps.

Your 600 amp panel is adequate for this load.
You didn?t tell us how many parallel 350?s were used. But presuming you meant two sets of 350 MCM copper, that has an ampacity of 620 amps, and is adequate for this calculated load.

Final Point:

Voltage drop is not an easy calculation for a marina. If you take the worst possible circumstance, that of assuming all load is at the very end of the run, and if you get an acceptable value of VD, then you can be confident that there are no VD problems in the actual installation. That is not often the results, and it is not your results. I got a result of 8% VD, using that assumption.

So to get a realistic value of VD, you need to calculate VD from the MDP to the panel, assuming (correctly) that all the load goes through that feeder. Then you need to calculate the VD in steps. As you get further down the dock, the load gets less and less, so the current used to calculate VD gets less and less. However, the number of slips being powered from further down the dock is no longer 76, so you can?t use a demand factor of 30% any more. As you continue the VD calculation further down the dock, the available demand factor (for the slips that remain to be calculated) gets smaller, and the demand factor gets bigger.

The last time I did such a calculation, I used a spreadsheet. It helped with the math, but it was no easy task to set up. Good luck on this one.
 
Just to add to what Charlie says:
Read the FPN to table 555.12 which warns you that the use of the derating factors may result in an inadequate installation if the marina is in an are that gets hot or cold!
 
Also referring to the FPN on 555.12, you can derate the conductors and demand factor 10% if each pedestal has an electric meter.
Just a simple meter, it doesn't need to be a utility KWH meter.

Good luck
 
thanks

thanks

appreciate the lesson charlie B. I had came up with 477 amps due to they are actually adding 12 100 amp rec. I was just making sure. I am still hesitant because this is in florida and their will be alot of a/c on this marina. The FPN under the table leaves the door open for questions. Thanks again!
 
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In My experience with Marina Wiring, You can use demand factors, but if I were doing it, I would make sure the Owner knows that He will have some complaining houseboaters during heavy use peroids...Memorial Day, Fourth of July etc.
The larger boats will usually be found at the end of these Marinas, making them farthest from the source. These boats WILL have trouble with those little heat pumps operating during peak times.
The method I used for correcting this was to convert 1 Disco to 600V & get the POCO to install an additional 480 volt service. Down at the far end of this Marina, I installed a 100 KVA 480/240 transformer, came out to 2 200 amp MBDs, and fed the pedestals in each direction.
Be assured, not using demand calcs, or an installation like I described will cost several more dollars to do. ( Had to get a work bardge to set the Xfmr ) but I would make sure that the Owner is aware that to provide the power His slip renters will expect, The money will need to be spent. 99 degrees + 4th of July weekend = many houseboaters running up & down the dock looking for the Marina Owner !
After this past season, I checked on My project, and the Marina Owner told Me it was the best investment He's made yet.
It inabled Him to claim the best preformance on the lake, He then was able to raise the yearly slip fees, He's expanding due to the waiting list He now has, and soon I will be there doing the exact same project !
 
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