Master's License via Electrical Engineer?

[mkresha]

I have a question I hope that someone can answer. I was told by a friend that an electrical engineer can substitute for a master electrician as far as signing off on my hours towards me being a master electrician (here in Texas). Is this possible without the EE being a master electrician? So far I have 10,000 documented hours with a master electrician but went to work for the municipal utility and (as they are exempt) there are no master electricians here, but plenty of EE's. There would seem to be an equivalence but wanted to check before I ask for a letter from my main EE. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ingenieur]

I have a question I hope that someone can answer. I was told by a friend that an electrical engineer can substitute for a master electrician as far as signing off on my hours towards me being a master electrician (here in Texas). Is this possible without the EE being a master electrician? So far I have 10,000 documented hours with a master electrician but went to work for the municipal utility and (as they are exempt) there are no master electricians here, but plenty of EE's. There would seem to be an equivalence but wanted to check before I ask for a letter from my main EE. Thanks in advance.

check with the licensing board

Get both to sign a statement
the me that you have 10000 hrs under
and the current ee

directly from the application

1. LICENSING REQUIREMENTS - You must have held a journeyman electrician’s license for at least two years. Youmust have at least 12,000 hours of on-the-job training under the supervision of a master electrician prior to taking theexam. When your experience has been approved, PSI will mail you a postcard with information on how to scheduleyour exam. The employment history portion of the application must include the full 12,000 hours. An Experience Ver-ification Form is required for each employer and must be signed by the supervising master electrician
   

 

[mkresha]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have emailed TDLR and will post their response either way.

check with the licensing board

Get both to sign a statement
the me that you have 10000 hrs under
and the current ee

directly from the application

2. LICENSING REQUIREMENTS - You must have held a journeyman electrician’s license for at least two years. Youmust have at least 12,000 hours of on-the-job training under the supervision of a master electrician prior to taking theexam. When your experience has been approved, PSI will mail you a postcard with information on how to scheduleyour exam. The employment history portion of the application must include the full 12,000 hours. An Experience Ver-ification Form is required for each employer and must be signed by the supervising master electrician

 

[mkresha]

Response:
"No an EE cannot sign for OJT, only a ME can sign for OJT. Utility work is exempted electrical work and only qualifies for the Journeyman lineman."
Chief Electrical Inspector
TDLR - Compliance Division

Thanks for the suggestion. I have emailed TDLR and will post their response either way.

 

[jim dungar]

...went to work for the municipal utility and (as they are exempt) there are no master electricians here...

I think you need to be careful with your words and descriptions.

Utilities line work is exempt, and likely would not count towards your 'electrician' license. But you already heard that from the board.
Utility generating plant work is also likely exempt and therefore would not count.
Utility general building and construction (non-generating) work might not be exempt as it is no different than any other commercial facility. However you would still need a Master to supervise and approve your work experience.

 

[Ingenieur]

I think you need to be careful with your words and descriptions.

Utilities line work is exempt, and likely would not count towards your 'electrician' license. But you already heard that from the board.
Utility generating plant work is also likely exempt and therefore would not count.
Utility general building and construction (non-generating) work might not be exempt as it is no different than any other commercial facility. However you would still need a Master to supervise and approve your work experience.

I skimmed thru their law and it appears all work in their facilities and grounds is exempt
but I agree, verify
https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/eleclaw.htm#1305003

 

[jim dungar]

I skimmed thru their law and it appears all work in their facilities and grounds is exempt
but I agree, verify
https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/eleclaw.htm#1305003

Read a little closer. Just like the NEC, Texas only exempts the utility stuff that makes and distributes power, 1305.003(a)(5) "...used for communications or metering, or for the generation, control, transformation, transmission, and distribution of electrical energy...", routine 'Buildings and Ground' stuff is not exempt.

 

[Ingenieur]

Read a little closer. Just like the NEC, Texas only exempts the utility stuff that makes and distributes power, 1305.003(a)(5) "...used for communications or metering, or for the generation, control, transformation, transmission, and distribution of electrical energy...", routine 'Buildings and Ground' stuff is not exempt.

they can do lighting, etc in the plant, substation or control room
or it appears facilities connected/integral to those

not in seperate offices, shops, etc

 

[jim dungar]

...not in seperate offices, shops, etc

So it is possible the work the OP is doing is not exempt, however to count as valid experience, a Journeyman is needed not just an EE.

 

[kwired]

Here there isn't a "master" license anymore, you are basically a journeyman or a contractor if you are a license holder, so here you would be interested in the contractor license to do what you want to do.

I don't think they would let you go straight to the contractor license here. They may consider your experiences and allow you to take the journeyman test though. (I'm sure you would have to test regardless of experience or titles you hold)

You would have to hold a journeyman license for one year before you are eligible to take the contractor license exam.

 

[Aleman]

I'm not sure it would be a good thing if an EE could sign off on an Electrician. Last year we had some engineering interns and I was surprised at how little
the EE major knew. And he was in his senior year.

 

[kwired]

I'm not sure it would be a good thing if an EE could sign off on an Electrician. Last year we had some engineering interns and I was surprised at how little
the EE major knew. And he was in his senior year.

I can understand that situation and the fact the guy had little experience. But even here on this site we get questions from experienced EE's at times that obviously have no installation type experiences. Not trying to put them down but if you have no installation experience you shouldn't be trying to run a contracting business, you could be the designer but someone else needs to be part of the business that has the installation experience.

Problem with OP is he may have knowledge and experience, but should have gotten his licensing in the past. By this I mean if he had gotten a journeymen license sometime in the past then moving up to the master license would be easier now. Otherwise I think he may have a harder time jumping over that journeyman license that they very possibly will determine he is at least qualified to take the exam for that.

If you enlist in the armed forces you don't start out as a sergeant or get your first commissioned level as a major.

 

[steve66]

I'm not sure it would be a good thing if an EE could sign off on an Electrician. Last year we had some engineering interns and I was surprised at how little
the EE major knew. And he was in his senior year.

If he was in his senior year, I would not call him an electrical engineer, at least not in the sense of being a professional engineer.

That requires 4 years of experience working under the supervision of a professional engineer.

And I wouldn't expect anyone in their senior year to have any practical experience. It's a little different that electricians where the schooling and on the job training usually happen side by side.

And most engineering schools consider anything remotely "technical" beneath them. That means students probably haven't even heard of the NEC since you don't need calculus to explain it. Trade terms, standard installation methods and building construction and such....all NADA.

 

[ggunn]

If he was in his senior year, I would not call him an electrical engineer, at least not in the sense of being a professional engineer.

That requires 4 years of experience working under the supervision of a professional engineer.

And I wouldn't expect anyone in their senior year to have any practical experience. It's a little different that electricians where the schooling and on the job training usually happen side by side.

And most engineering schools consider anything remotely "technical" beneath them. That means students probably haven't even heard of the NEC since you don't need calculus to explain it. Trade terms, standard installation methods and building construction and such....all NADA.

As an EE and a PE who deals with electricians on a daily basis, I have to say that electrical engineering and electricianship are two different disciplines. An EE and a Master Electrician are not interchangeable.

 

[growler]

If you enlist in the armed forces you don't start out as a sergeant or get your first commissioned level as a major.

Actually it is possible to enlist as a Sergeant or to be commissioned as a Major.

This would require that you have a skill or a profession that the military needs and similar civilian work experience.

 

[kwired]

Actually it is possible to enlist as a Sergeant or to be commissioned as a Major.

This would require that you have a skill or a profession that the military needs and similar civilian work experience.

I suppose that is possible, maybe even more likely to happen in a "draft situation". I think what is more common is retired military people continuing their same job as a civilian employee. I have a brother in law that is doing that right now, retired Lt Col. but still doing the same job in same office he had when he retired from the Army.