MC cable a raceway?

[Falcon007]

Hi all,

Bear with me for a moment, this seems a bit complicated (at least to me) and will try to give you a little background information.

The situation at hand involves a Smoke Control System wired with Fire Alarm type MC cable as the SLC (Signal Line Circuit).The fire protection specialist has indicated that according to the International Fire Code/International Building Code-which is their governing code for this large metropolitan area-that the SLC does not meet its provisions. It appears the violation has to do with IBC/IFC, Section 909 "Smoke Control Systems. Specifically, Section 909.12.1 which states the following "Wiring. In addition to meeting the requirements of the ICC Electrical Code, all wiring, regardless of voltage, shall be fully enclosed within continuous raceways.

I'm trying to come up with a rational code interpretation slanted towards utilizing the existing wiring in place and not have to remove it and put up a raceway, etc. I'd like to ask you guys if some of the things I found in the NEC make sense towards this goal.

First of all, as I understand it the ICC Electrical Code as of mid year 2008 was essentially replaced with the NFPA 70 (National Electric Code), except for some administrative appendices. Does anyone know if this is the case?

Furthermore, the way I read the NEC (Art. 100 Ch.1, pg 70-29) definition of a raceway, the Fire Alarm type MC cables continuous corrugated metallic sheath appears to meet this definition being both flexible and continuous or sealed.

Although, looking at NEC Art. 330 (7) ?In any raceway? this MC cable sheath is a raceway assertion is kind of contradicted. What are your thoughts on this?can the continuous corrugated aluminum sheath of the MC cable be considered a raceway??and if so, how can I make this argument?

 

[iwire]

(Art. 100 Ch.1, pg 70-29) definition of a raceway, the Fire Alarm type MC cables continuous corrugated metallic sheath appears to meet this definition being both flexible and continuous or sealed.

I doubt the MC you have is the type with a continuous corrugated metallic sheath. That type of MC looks more like ... well ... a 'bendy straw'

not the typical armor we see on MC or AC.

Beyond that MC cable is a cable assembly not a raceway. See 330.2.

 

[chris kennedy]

What are your thoughts on this?can the continuous corrugated aluminum sheath of the MC cable be considered a raceway??and if so, how can I make this argument?

Welcome to the Forum. MC Cable is a cable not a raceway.

Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic materials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or busbars, with additional functions as permitted in this Code. Raceways include, but are not limited to, rigid metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight flexible conduit, flexible metallic tubing, flexible metal conduit, electrical nonmetallic tubing, electrical metallic tubing, underfloor raceways, cellular concrete floor raceways, cellular metal floor raceways, surface raceways, wireways, and busways.

ARTICLE 330 Metal-Clad Cable: Type MC

 

[acrwc10]

Hi all,

Bear with me for a moment, this seems a bit complicated (at least to me) and will try to give you a little background information.

The situation at hand involves a Smoke Control System wired with Fire Alarm type MC cable as the SLC (Signal Line Circuit).The fire protection specialist has indicated that according to the International Fire Code/International Building Code-which is their governing code for this large metropolitan area-that the SLC does not meet its provisions. It appears the violation has to do with IBC/IFC, Section 909 "Smoke Control Systems. Specifically, Section 909.12.1 which states the following "Wiring. In addition to meeting the requirements of the ICC Electrical Code, all wiring, regardless of voltage, shall be fully enclosed within continuous raceways.

I'm trying to come up with a rational code interpretation slanted towards utilizing the existing wiring in place and not have to remove it and put up a raceway, etc. I'd like to ask you guys if some of the things I found in the NEC make sense towards this goal.

First of all, as I understand it the ICC Electrical Code as of mid year 2008 was essentially replaced with the NFPA 70 (National Electric Code), except for some administrative appendices. Does anyone know if this is the case?

Furthermore, the way I read the NEC (Art. 100 Ch.1, pg 70-29) definition of a raceway, the Fire Alarm type MC cables continuous corrugated metallic sheath appears to meet this definition being both flexible and continuous or sealed.

Although, looking at NEC Art. 330 (7) ?In any raceway? this MC cable sheath is a raceway assertion is kind of contradicted. What are your thoughts on this?can the continuous corrugated aluminum sheath of the MC cable be considered a raceway??and if so, how can I make this argument?

What "large metropolitan area" would that be ? I think that is important to know to answer if he is accurate or not.

 

[Falcon007]

Thanks for the reply.
I'm certain it's continuously corrugated and it does resemble your straw example, sort of.
I also realize I didn't mention it but it So it's not the traditinal type of MC cable. It has a red color to it and is also rated as FPL for use in NEC 760 applications. The inner conductors are comprised of pvc/nylon like a TFFN or THHN conductor and comply with UL 1569 and 1464.

Does this make a difference?

 

[Karl H]

I doubt the MC you have is the type with a continuous corrugated metallic sheath. That type of MC looks more like ... well ... a 'bendy straw'

not the typical armor we see on MC or AC.

Beyond that MC cable is a cable assembly not a raceway. See 330.2.

Ok now the picture is compete!!!! Iwire posting on this forum looks like,

Clint Eastwood (Wearing dusty hat) sitting at the computer. Answering

NEC questions,flipping thru the NEC,while sipping on a drink with a

"Bendy-Straw!"

 

[chris kennedy]

Clint Eastwood (Wearing dusty hat) sitting at the computer. Answering

NEC questions,flipping thru the NEC,while sipping on a drink with a

"Bendy-Straw!"

A true cowboys poison would melt the straw in a sip and a half.

Now back to electricity.

 

[wbalsam1]

In New York 909.12.1 refers back to the Building Code (Chapter 27) which in turn references the 2005 NEC.
The ICC Electrical Code is not used anymore.
A continuous raceway is what is called for and MC cable is not a raceway.

 

[iwire]

Ok now the picture is compete!!!! Iwire posting on this forum looks like,

Clint Eastwood (Wearing dusty hat) sitting at the computer. Answering

NEC questions,flipping thru the NEC,while sipping on a drink with a

"Bendy-Straw!"

Jack can not be properly enjoyed through a straw.

 

[iwire]

Thanks for the reply.
I'm certain it's continuously corrugated and it does resemble your straw example, sort of.
I also realize I didn't mention it but it So it's not the traditinal type of MC cable. It has a red color to it and is also rated as FPL for use in NEC 760 applications. The inner conductors are comprised of pvc/nylon like a TFFN or THHN conductor and comply with UL 1569 and 1464.

Does this make a difference?

It certainly could be continuously corrugated MC but all the red fire alarm MC I work with is of the interlocked strip type like flexible metal conduit.

 

[LarryFine]

Ok now the picture is compete!!!! Iwire posting on this forum looks like,

Clint Eastwood (Wearing dusty hat) sitting at the computer. Answering

NEC questions,flipping thru the NEC,while sipping on a drink with a

"Bendy-Straw!"

You left out saying, "Go ahead; make my day!"

 

[Falcon007]

Thanks for the replies so far, I think I'll never look at a flexible straw the same way again.:wink:

There seems to some ambiguity in the way the NEC articles can be interpreted.I was thinking that since it's a UL approved FPL cable conductors inside a metallic armor sheath(continuous corrugated seamless aluminum tube) it could be considered FPL cable with "extra protection" and therefore considered a two piece system and not one integral cable system.

Also, even though the "uses permitted" section in 330.10 indicates type MC cable shall be permitted as follows (7) "In any raceway",it isn't listed under uses not permitted, why is this?...it would seem to me that it would be OK to put in a raceway, but nothing really indicates it has to be as long as it meets the requirements of 330.30:Securing and Supporting.

Whats does "FPN:" mean and where is "the "uses permitted is not an all inclusive list" info available at?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

It can be installed in a raceway for the purpose of protection from physical damage. Remember the MC will need to be secured to the enclosure/box.

 

[iwire]

It can be installed in a raceway for the purpose of protection from physical damage. Remember the MC will need to be secured to the enclosure/box.

I disagree with the last part of that, once it goes in the raceway and is secured to the raceway the need to secure it to the box goes away.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I disagree with the last part of that, once it goes in the raceway and is secured to the raceway the need to secure it to the box goes away.

I stated the MC was installed "in" the raceway. That is what my post is based on.

I understand if a transition fitting is installed between the MC and the raceway that the MC is not required to be secured to the enclosure/box.

 

[Volta]

Whats does "FPN:" mean and where is "the "uses permitted is not an all inclusive list" info available at?

Fine Print Note. 90.5 (C) Explanatory material not enforcable as Code, but may reference other standards that are enforcable . . .

There is no other list for the uses permitted. ". . . not an all inclusive list" is just making allowances for uses that may not have been mentioned, but would not violate .12 "not permitted".

For instance, "(7) in any raceway" might make it necessary for some length to exist in the enclosure the raceway is connected to. That does not violate .12 but is not specifically listed in .10.