MCC Bucket UL Listings

[philly]

Do MCC buckets have individual UL listings that are separate from the MCC structure they are located in?

I have seen several aftermarket MCC buckets of one manufacturer be placed in an MCC structure for another manufacturer. For example I've seen Cuttler Hammer MCC buckets replace existing buckets in a Square D MCC.

Does each manufacturer list their MCC for some of their competitors buckets knowing they will likely also place their buckets in the competitions MCC's or are the buckets listed individually and completely separate from the structure rating?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

They are not directly interchangeable from manufacturer, but any manufacturer can build a listed bucket for any other manufacturer if they choose to do so.

 

[Jraef]

Don's correct. It's actually an expensive endeavor, that's why most don't do it, but someone at Eaton saw an opportunity to get more Eaton parts out into old obsolete MCCs and competitor's MCCs. To get a UL845 listing on an individual bucket (and yes, individual buckets are UL 845 listed), the bucket must be tested INSIDE of the MCC it is supposed to connect to at the fault current rating of that MCC as a minimum (it's OK for the bucket to have a higher rating, and they usually do). So for Eaton to offer their "new" retrofit bucket for an old Gould 5600 MCC for example, they must obtain a Gould 5600 MCC structure and do the short circuit and withstand testing of their new buckets in that structure. From what I have heard, that's what Eaton did, but that must have cost them a pretty penny. I know of a scrap / surplus dealer out here that has worked with Eaton on obtaining those old MCC structures and building the sheet metal parts for them because they had access to a lot of original factory assembly drawings and documents.
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?Idc...leased&Rendition=Primary&dDocName=CA04304001E

Siemens has done this with most of the legacy MCCs that they inherited through acquisitions (Allis Chalmers, Gould, ITE, Furnas) and their own obsolete versions, but as far as I know don't extend that to include competitor's MCCs like Eaton does.
https://www.industry.usa.siemens.co...ccontent/Documents/CCBR-MCCAR-0813 lowres.pdf

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Don's correct. It's actually an expensive endeavor, ...

I have quotes from Eaton to make buckets for GE 7700 and 8000 line MCCs that were 15-20% less than the quote from GE.

 

[Jraef]

I have quotes from Eaton to make buckets for GE 7700 and 8000 line MCCs that were 15-20% less than the quote from GE.

No doubt.

For every MCC mfr, MCCs as sold when originally configured are "loss leaders" meaning they are priced to get the project and get the products into the facility, even though in most cases they make little or may even lose money on them. The concept is, the end user will need to come back later for add-ons, replacements etc., and that's where they make up the profits. Eaton's program disrupts that process, so they price their retrofit buckets to just make their nut on the bucket itself, they have no prior skin in the game on that original sale that went to GE, but GE's loose bucket pricing program is always going to be based on that make-up profit model. Everyone is like that.

I once had a project that had 2 new C-H MCCs, add-on buckets for old Sq. D MCCs and a few buckets for an existing C-H MCC. On the same size starters, the loose C-H MCC buckets cost me more than the C-H made Sq. D buckets. Made no sense, unless you know how it all works.

 

[GoldDigger]

In an earlier job I was doing a network security installation at the engineering offices of a major aircraft maker.
Prominently placed on a bulletin board was a memo reminding people that if a request for bid came in for any further work on that plane to be sure to include enough money to finish the documentation that was supposed to be part of the previous contract.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[don_resqcapt19]

... Made no sense, unless you know how it all works.

Exactly....it was often cost effective order a section with the buckets installed any time you need 2 or more buckets and just scrap the section. In one case a another contractor needed the sections to keep a fast track project on track and not only did we save money by buying the buckets in sections, we made money by selling the empty sections to the other contractor.

 

[petersonra]

Exactly....it was often cost effective order a section with the buckets installed any time you need 2 or more buckets and just scrap the section. In one case a another contractor needed the sections to keep a fast track project on track and not only did we save money by buying the buckets in sections, we made money by selling the empty sections to the other contractor.

it was that way with AB until a few years ago. if we needed a couple of buckets for an existing MCC we would order them in a section and just toss the structure because it was much faster and cost less. we could get them in a section in a couple of days but the buckets by themselves were often weeks.

now you can order the buckets themselves in a cost and time efficient way so we do.