Means of Support

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Dean83169

Dean83169

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I have been told by a fellow electrician that what we have been doing for years is unacceptable and not listed for its use. Can you use tywraps as a means of support when supporting wires to steel beams or when installing beams clamps and tywraping the wire to the clamp. Is it a matter of the UL listing on the tywrap? Is bailing tywire not a means either?
 
Dean83169 said:
I have been told by a fellow electrician that what we have been doing for years is unacceptable and not listed for its use. Can you use tywraps as a means of support when supporting wires to steel beams or when installing beams clamps and tywraping the wire to the clamp. Is it a matter of the UL listing on the tywrap? Is bailing tywire not a means either?
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By support of wires, do you mean mc or nm? If so then yes you can. Check out 330.30(A) and 334.30.
 
You can use whatever is approved by the AHJ, the NEC does not require a listed support for cables.

I use bailing wire, tie wraps or Caddy products.

The one exception to that is above a ceiling in an air handling space, you would need plenum listed tie wraps which are available but are expensive.
 
Sorry, lets say for using tywraps on MC,AC and for low voltage wiring as in fire, data and phone. We use plenum tywraps and standard ones in the places needed. But is it an approved means of support and are the tywraps UL listed for doing this?
 
Dean83169 said:
Sorry, lets say for using tywraps on MC,AC and for low voltage wiring as in fire, data and phone. We use plenum tywraps and standard ones in the places needed. But is it an approved means of support and are the tywraps UL listed for doing this?
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staples tend to not be listed either (although some are)
tye wraps are fine ensure that they are suitable for the applications as has been mentioned for plenumns. Also eia tia 586A will caution on how tight you apply the tye warps. and the effect such a small area of support (thin wrap)will present to a comm cable but that is not in the NEC.
 
I would say that tie wire is not OK for securing and supporting cables. When look at the list of securing methods you won't find tie wire on the list. Ty wraps yes but tie wire no. Here is the list for type AC cables, MC has a similar requirement:

320.30 Securing and Supporting.
(A) General. Type AC cable shall be supported and secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings, designed and installed so as not to damage the cable.
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infinity said:
I would say that tie wire is not OK for securing and supporting cables. When look at the list of securing methods you won't find tie wire on the list. Ty wraps yes but tie wire no. Here is the list for type AC cables, MC has a similar requirement:
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Strange, as that is a very common method of supporting armored cables in my area.

Call it a strap, call it a hanger, call it a cable tie, all it needs to be is approved by the AHJ. :cool:
 
iwire said:
Strange, as that is a very common method of supporting armored cables in my area.

Call it a strap, call it a hanger, call it a cable tie, all it needs to be is approved by the AHJ. :cool:
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You're right, tie wire is a very common method, but in the wording of the NEC, IMO it isn't code compliant.
 
infinity said:
You're right, tie wire is a very common method, but in the wording of the NEC, IMO it isn't code compliant.
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Can you show me a definition of a cable tie?

IMO a tie wire holding a cable is in fact a type of cable tie.

I guess we will have agree to disagree. :smile:
 
cpal said:
Also eia tia 586A will caution on how tight you apply the tye warps. and the effect such a small area of support (thin wrap)will present to a comm cable but that is not in the NEC.
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I agree, and often use two tie-wraps for data cabling: one tightened onto the support, and the second, captured in the first one, left loose enough to support without crushing. This also comes in handy when the support faces the wrong way.
 
Here is a cable tie, which is an industry standard name:

cable_spec.jpg


Doesn't look like tie wire to me.;)

The link:

http://www.tnb.com/ps/pubint/index.cgi?a=get_sub&cid=2
 
infinity said:
Here is a cable tie, which is an industry standard name:

cable_spec.jpg
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I agree, 100% those are one type of cable ties. :smile:

However I see nothing in the NEC that requires cable ties to be Nylon or self locking.

Here are STAINLESS STEEL CABLE TIES

Are they not allowed as they are not what comes to mind when you hear 'Cable tie'?

Considering that tie wire is such a widely accepted method IMO it is unlikely that AHJs consider it a violation.
 
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Like I have said I use tywire and tywraps. Caddy makes the MCS which we use but your allowed to bundle upto 20 CCC anyway which at that point you can tywire or tywrap. Panduit has the approved cable tie which is listed as a cable tie and UL listed. So does this satisfy the code and I do I have an argument when the AHJ says thats illegal and not to code. Its a cable tie and its UL listed and according to the NEC it does state cable tie.
 
stickboy1375 said:
I would call that a TY-Rap, and I don't see that in the NEC, but it ties cables together just like tie wire...
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If you click on the link you'll see that they are called by their generic name, Cable Ties.
 
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