Measuring Countertop Wall Space

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infinity

infinity

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Someone asked me this the other day and I would like some opinions regarding 210.52(C)(1)&(4). A 12" cabinet is placed with a 12" section of countertop to the side of a rangetop. The rangetop has a flange of about 5/8" leaving the counter space with a width of 11.375", is a receptacle required? So in other words does the width measurement begin at the hidden edge of the countertop or the edge of the rangetop?

210.52(C) Countertops. In kitchens, pantries, breakfast rooms,
dining rooms, and similar areas of dwelling units, receptacle outlets for countertop spaces shall be installed in accordance with 210.52(C)(1) through (C)(5).
(1) Wall Countertop Spaces. A receptacle outlet shall be installed at each wall countertop space that is 300 mm (12 in.)
or wider. Receptacle outlets shall be installed so that no point along the wall line is more than 600 mm (24 in.) measured
horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space.
(4) Separate Spaces. Countertop spaces separated by
rangetops, refrigerators, or sinks shall be considered as
separate countertop spaces in applying the requirements of 210.52(C)(1). If a range, counter-mounted cooking unit, or sink is installed in an island or peninsular countertop and the depth of the countertop behind the range, counter mounted cooking unit, or sink is less than 300 mm (12 in.), the range, counter-mounted cooking unit, or sink shall be considered to divide the countertop space into two separate countertop spaces. Each separate countertop space shall
comply with the applicable requirements in 210.52(C).
Click to expand...
 
I guess to be exact I would say yes simply because the countertop is still 12". Just because there is a trim on it does not change the length, IMO
 
Another argument is that is says "countertop space"
The "space" is <12".
 
The question came up because the drawings did not show the receptacle in that location. The backsplash is solid granite so to add one later would be a nightmare. The Architect said technically the countertop is less than 12" with the rangetop installed, we said pay us now ($ cheap) to add the receptacle or pay us later ($$$$ expensive) he opted for cheap.
 
infinity said:
The backsplash is solid granite so to add one later would be a nightmare. The Architect said technically the countertop is less than 12" with the rangetop installed, we said pay us now ($ cheap) to add the receptacle or pay us later ($$$$ expensive) he opted for cheap.
Click to expand...

Notwithstanding the code question, if an architect is trying to cheap out on code-minimum outlets in a kitchen with solid granite backsplashes, he's not the right architect for the job. He may be good at something, but it's not high-end kitchens.
 
ceknight said:
Notwithstanding the code question, if an architect is trying to cheap out on code-minimum outlets in a kitchen with solid granite backsplashes, he's not the right architect for the job. He may be good at something, but it's not high-end kitchens.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Funny but very true.
 
infinity said:
Someone asked me this the other day and I would like some opinions regarding 210.52(C)(1)&(4). A 12" cabinet is placed with a 12" section of countertop to the side of a rangetop. The rangetop has a flange of about 5/8" leaving the counter space with a width of 11.375", is a receptacle required? So in other words does the width measurement begin at the hidden edge of the countertop or the edge of the rangetop?
Click to expand...
If you look closely at 210.52(C) Countertops. it is describing (1) Wall Countertop Spaces.. So, IMHO, irrespective of whether the counter space turns out to be 11.3", if the wall space is 12" you should have one. And, as you've already stated, installing one later on would be a real PITA. Besides, what do architects know about our trade:?
 
goldstar said:
Besides, what do architects know about our trade:?
Click to expand...

That statement is too much of a generalization. I have worked with some architects that knew a whole lot about electrical and NEC as long as it didn't delve into deep technical issues.
 
mjf said:
I would say that a receptacle is required. That range (and trim piece) is not as permanent as the 12" countertop.
Click to expand...

If we included sinks and ranges we would have receptacles behind them; clearly not the intent of the code.
 
If the actual dimensions of a 2 X 4 are 1 1/2" X 3 1/2", is it still a 2 X 4? :?

If the actual piece of counter top is 12", creating a 12" wall space, my call would be that it needs a recep. I DO think it's a tough call though.
 
goldstar said:
If you look closely at 210.52(C) Countertops. it is describing (1) Wall Countertop Spaces.. So, IMHO, irrespective of whether the counter space turns out to be 11.3", if the wall space is 12" you should have one. And, as you've already stated, installing one later on would be a real PITA. Besides, what do architects know about our trade:?
Click to expand...

The wall space does not include any of the wall behind the appliance so in this case the wall space is 11.375". If this were a drop in cooktop or sink you would measure from the edge of the sink or cooktop not where you cut the hole.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. What is best for the installation for the customer? I'm not going to break out a tape measure, as an inspector on the job site, to determine what makes a countertop space a minute fraction of a decimal below the 12" threshold specified by the code. Inspectors are not there to make life difficult for a contractor, we merely attempt to enforce the code. These ridiculous arguments about circumstances such as this thread involves do not serve the customer. In the time spent contending that a receptacle is not required, one could have wired the receptacle. What were the dimensions during the rough and how does the inspector interpret the drawing to conclude that a flange, trim, molding or similar device renders the counter space to be fractionally shy of the 12 inches that the code specifies? I was a contractor myself for 20+ years and always did what was best for the customer which was usually above the standards of the code. As a 15 year inspector, I am happy to report that the contractors that argue these ridiculous points are the exception. Most contractors do what is best for the customer. As always, the code is the "minimum." Do we really need to argue about fractions?
 
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