Meeting Rooms - bigger than 1000SF

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olc

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A meeting room 1001 SF does not have any requirements for receptacle placement?
Am I reading correctly?
What was the thinking there?
 
olc said:
A meeting room 1001 SF does not have any requirements for receptacle placement?
Am I reading correctly?
What was the thinking there?
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That receptacle placement in commercial facilities is completely left up to the desires and needs of the tenant. Or probably more specifically, the receptacle placement in residential should be dictates to prevent unscrupulous contractors from cutting corners and to prevent extension cords run willy nilly in a residence.
 
Strathead said:
That receptacle placement in commercial facilities is completely left up to the desires and needs of the tenant. Or probably more specifically, the receptacle placement in residential should be dictates to prevent unscrupulous contractors from cutting corners and to prevent extension cords run willy nilly in a residence.
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I believe that there are required receptacles now in the 2017 NEC for these types of rooms. Look at 210.71.
 
olc said:
210.71
"meeting room of not more than 1000SF"
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I think the idea was that having a lot of outlets in a meeting space increases the likelihood that people will either be distracted by plugged in devices, or leave something plugged in that causes a problem. So in a small room <1000 sq ft, they can decide to not allow it. But larger than that a custodian would not be able to safely use an extension cord for vacuums, floor machines etc., so they will need an outlet in the room.
 
Jraef said:
I think the idea was that having a lot of outlets in a meeting space increases the likelihood that people will either be distracted by plugged in devices, or leave something plugged in that causes a problem. So in a small room <1000 sq ft, they can decide to not allow it. But larger than that a custodian would not be able to safely use an extension cord for vacuums, floor machines etc., so they will need an outlet in the room.
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The code requires the receptacle outlets in the small meeting rooms because the occupants will likely need power for their electronic devices.

For larger rooms, there is no code requirement for any receptacles, it is a design issue.

One of the thoughts for not requiring the receptacle outlets in the larger rooms is that many will be their to view and not participate in the meeting and will not new to be using their electronic devices.
 
olc said:
A meeting room 1001 SF does not have any requirements for receptacle placement?
Am I reading correctly?
What was the thinking there?
Click to expand...
Under the new section you are correct. However, remember that new rule is a method to determine the "amount" of receptacles and not the actual placement of those receptacles, except in meeting room that is at least 3.7 m (12 ft) wide and that has a floor area of at least 20 m2 (215 ft2) shall have at least one receptacle outlet located in the floor at a distance not less than 1.8 m (6 ft) from any fxed wall for each 20 m2 (215 ft2) or major portion of foor space.

Otherwise, the placements of such receptacles are at the will of the designers or building owners.
 
I’d say over 1000SF tends to be more of an auditorium. The seating arrangement is less setup for individual users to plug-in. In those types of spaces requirements for floor boxes would likely not have them under tables and may be more of a tripping hazard.

Informational Note No. 1:  For the purposes of this section, meeting rooms are typically designed or intended for the gathering of seated occupants for such purposes as conferences, deliberations, or similar purposes, where portable electronic equipment such as computers, projectors, or similar equipment is likely to be used.

Informational Note No. 2:  Examples of rooms that are not meeting rooms include auditoriums, schoolrooms, and coffee shops.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
Under the new section you are correct. However, remember that new rule is a method to determine the "amount" of receptacles and not the actual placement of those receptacles, except in meeting room that is at least 3.7 m (12 ft) wide and that has a floor area of at least 20 m2 (215 ft2) shall have at least one receptacle outlet located in the floor at a distance not less than 1.8 m (6 ft) from any fxed wall for each 20 m2 (215 ft2) or major portion of foor space.

Otherwise, the placements of such receptacles are at the will of the designers or building owners.
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Partially indicated here: even though larger rooms don’t need floor boxes...they must now have recepts at 12 ft intervals around then perimeter.
 
publicgood said:
Partially indicated here: even though larger rooms don’t need floor boxes...they must now have recepts at 12 ft intervals around then perimeter.
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Prove It.....not how 210.71 is written in 2017 NEC.

It was clarified by CMP 2 that the intent of the reference to 210.52(A)(1) -(A)(4) is simply the means to determine the total number as defines in 210.71 (B). No intent was to imply a spacing requirement which is why the charging statement says they can be where ever the designer or owner chooses.
 
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However, for 2020 that could change but i have tried to keep from looking until we all vote since things can change from the meetings in Hilton Head to voting time.
 
Maybe in 2020 they could word it a bit better. The reference to 210.52 tends to lead one astray.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
Prove It.....not how 210.71 is written in 2017 NEC.

It was clarified by CMP 2 that the intent of the reference to 210.52(A)(1) -(A)(4) is simply the means to determine the total number as defines in 210.71 (B). No intent was to imply a spacing requirement which is why the charging statement says they can be where ever the designer or owner chooses.
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How / where can this be seen ? Open for all to read or only NFPA members ?
I have been laying out plugs like it was a residence also.
 
augie47 said:
Here's an interesting article that might clear it up for you

https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2017/11/21/receptacle-outlet-requirements-for-meeting-rooms/
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Actually the article by Keith (whom is a friend of mine) is incorrect with the assumption of the wall spacing statement. Now, i did a long podcast on this subject and again spoke with multiple CMP 2 folks after the 2017 NEC was published and they stated it was not their intent to require placement as they clearly stated in the charging statement that designers or owners could place them as they deem fit. Why would they mandate placements when they state very clearly the designer and owner can placed as deemed fit.

But you are free to install as you interpret but speak to panel members on CMP 2 and they will clarify. However, i did ask the CMP 2 members to clear this up because i agreed the way it reads could be construed as how you are applying it...im just giving you background that it was not the CMP 2 members intent....only to determine the number and to reference how to get that number by using 210.52(A)(1) - (A)(4) methodology to establish a number total as its leads off with in (B).
 
When I read the Article it appeared to me the 210.52 reference was just to get the quantity of receptacles. Perhaps between your input and my reading the actual Code I had a preconceived notion. I did not catch that the article specified placement.
 
MyCleveland said:
How / where can this be seen ? Open for all to read or only NFPA members ?
I have been laying out plugs like it was a residence also.
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are you actually in a location that is using the 2017 NEC? I JUST started worrying about the costly requirements of the 2014.
 
Strathead said:
are you actually in a location that is using the 2017 NEC? I JUST started worrying about the costly requirements of the 2014.
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Yes, Ohio adopted Nov 2017.

Augie47
Thanks, I really need to subscribe to the IAEI...another moderator answered an earlier question with a similar type arcticle on exactly the topic of my question.

MasterTheNEC
I believe I am on the same page now.

Comment...."Speak to Panel Members", had an issue mid 2016 where I was able to gather ALL the members emails, and copied EACH on a request for a TIA. I believe I have that acronym correct. The ONLY responses I received back where from a few members differ their response to another member.
 
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