metal halide lights on a 3 way

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a.wayne3@verizon.net

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I just completed a club house ,the entry has 15 70 watt metal halide recessed cans that the print shows on a 3 wayswitch.No one realized until it was all done that there would be a problem.When first time turned on fine,but if they are turned off then turned back on before they can reset the circuit will trip out.The problem is that kids can acess the switches near the door .I sugested that we swap the standard 3 way for a keyed one but thats not acceptable.I was thinking a time delayed relay so as to allow the transformers to reset??????????????? any thoughts
 
iwire

iwire

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Location
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Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

These lamps and Ballasts will have a very short life span used like this.

If you go the time delay route people will hit the switch and get nothing so they will try again and again resetting the timer, being three ways they have no way of knowing if they turned it on or not.

The key switch idea was a good one.

A timeclock or photocell might work for you.

The customer has to be made to understand these lights are not made for cycling.

If they really want to turn them on and off change the fixtures to incandescent, or compact fluorescents if you can get the lumens of 70 watt HIDs

You said the job had a plan, this problem should be thrown back to the lighting designer or Electrical Engineer.
 
roger

roger

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Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

I agree with Bob and Scott. Even with restrikes the desired operation will not work.

As Scott says
Let the owners and the engineer battle it out!
Click to expand...
.

It sounds to me as though these people aren't looking for a solution, but for the impractical or impossible to work for them.

Roger
 
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a.wayne3@verizon.net

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Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

I agree with you it should go back to the EE,Too bad it wasnt cught by anyone before installation,Well short of changing the fixture type i guess someone will opt for the keyed 3 ways.These lights are not turned on and off alot so they dont have much of a choice,shy of the $$$$
 
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frenchelectrican

Senior Member
Location
Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

that is suprising about that someone did not catch the error on with 70 w mh lights really with hid it should be on most of the time with time clock or photo or key switched but really should have at least couple of flourscent light also for quick switching duty and leave other hids on for majority of time on seprate cr

just a thought

merci marc
 
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robbie

Member
Location
California
Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

If these fixtures are installed inside the building, a motion sensor might solve the problem. If they are installed outside, a photocell/timeclock option would do the trick.
 
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sparkmantoo

Member
Location
Virginia
Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

i would have to agree with the person that said let the owners and the engineers hack it out. but i also agree that the most likely and inexpensive way to correct this problem would be to blank off one side and put a key switch in on the other. that way they get control of their lights, and you can get on to your :roll: next project.
 
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frenchelectrican

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Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

frank:

the reason the breaker trip because you have reactor ballast when the light go out and power come back and it will draw more current until it warm up or you have bad capatior between lines look at www.advace.com for hid troble shooting list it will list about few diffrent ballast types typially about 4 or 5 kinds

merci marc
 
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frank

Member
Location
Illinois
Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

the reason the breaker is tripping is the electrician did not wire the circuit the way it should be.you must allow for restart current in high reactance ballast circuitry it may possible to add a capacitor to the lights to correct the problem.
 
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ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

I'm not trying to be contary but from my experience with metal halide lights if you turn them off after they have warmed up for a while and then turn them off and back on right away they pull less current than they did after they have warmed up.As a matter of fact I did this today with 4 400 watt 120 v. metal lights warm up and burning bright they pulled 14.7 amps. I turned them off to put them on contactor and right back on they where off maybe 3 minutes and when I turned them back on they pulled a little over 10 amps.

But maybe our electricity is different from youralls I don't know?

Ronald
 
iwire

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

Maybe our electricity is different around here. :D

I had a number of 150 watt Metal halides on a temp feed during a remodel and they would run fine until I shut them off and tried to restart before cooling, they would trip the breaker.

But this circuit was maxed out once they went on permanent feeds and the load was reduced all was fine.
 
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a.wayne3@verizon.net

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Re: metal halide lights on a 3 way

i finally got back to check what is what.Here`s what i found............ on initial start up the circuit pulled 12.9 amps then settled down to around 9 amps..........turned off and back on the amperage was right at 34 amps and popped the breaker.the circuit was pulled with #10 thhn and put on a 20 amp breaker changed the breaker and the same,all connections are tight...............Just a thought maybe it is just one ballast doing this???????? wouldn`t the amperage be alot higher if all ballasts were bucking the restart.I told the builders that the best remedy is to take the 3 way and the 4 way out of the picture,single pole key switch the lights and dont use this EE again.............
I agree it should have been caught before the installation but who ever thought of metal halides being switched would create this..........
thanks for all replies
a wayne tampa fla.
 
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