Metal Halides in the Cold

[iwire]

Hi all, I had a service call last night for a large retail store. The call was for a dark parking lot.

Only 3 or 4 fixtures out of about 30 total were working. They claim all were working the night before.

All 5 circuits running these lights had voltage and current, I checked with my amprobe.

When I put my ear near the pole base I could here the ballasts buzzing even with the lamps out.

Now in my mind the chances of 27 lamps all going bad at the same time is slim.

The only difference is this was the first time the fixtures had been exposed to temperatures around 0 F.

The fixtures look to be 400 Watt MH, I did not have a bucket truck so I could not get up there last night.

I have never had a problem with HIDs in cold weather.

Dose anyone have any thoughts, ideas, info?

I may never know what the problem is as this issue will probably be taken care of under warranty by the installing contractor.

Thanks, Bob

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Metal Halides in the Cold

I pulled this statement from this site: Metal Halide 101

When using the proper auxiliary equipment, standard metal halide lamps will start at an ambient temperature of -30 degrees C (-22 F). Full light output does not occur when power is first applied to cold metal halide lamps; there is a time delay of 2 to 4 minutes before lamps reach 90% of their full light output.

I don't see anything from UL either. This is one of those interesting and frustrating service calls.

 

[ron]

Re: Metal Halides in the Cold

Below is from Universal Ballast's Website for HID's (MH is a type of HID).
Low Ambient Temperature (cold)
As temperatures drop, less and less vaporized gas is available within the arc tube of a high intensity discharge lamp, thereby causing an increase in the open circuit voltage required to initiate an arc in the lamp, until a point is reached where the lamp cannot be started. The minimum temperature at which any ballast listed in this catalog will provide reliable starting is
listed with the electrical characteristics.
Low ambient temperatures will also result in a slight increase in the warmup period of any type of high intensity discharge lamp.
Ballasts should be protected from weather, moisture, or other abnormal atmospheric conditions, unless specifically designed for use under adverse conditions.

 

[sdbob]

Re: Metal Halides in the Cold

I wired a 150,000 sq. ft. freezer five years ago, the main sections run at -10 and the blast freezer sections -40.

400 watt metal halides used throughout - no problems.

27 lamps blowing at the same time? Stranger things have happened. Either UFO's flew by or your poco broke wind. Try a new bulb in one and pass the deodorizer.

 

[iwire]

Re: Metal Halides in the Cold

Ron, Byran and Bob thanks for the replies it is pretty much what I expected HIDs do fine in the cold I was just trying to find a logical answer to that service call.

This is one of those interesting and frustrating service calls.

Yes and it is made worse by the fact I will never know the outcome. As I guessed the installing contractor is taking care of it. Considering they are one of our main competitors with this particular customer I can not call them and ask them what happened.

Sorry I did not get back to this it had slipped my mind.

Bob

 

[jbahr343]

Re: Metal Halides in the Cold

WE HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM WITH A COMMERCIAL CUSTOMER . THE CIRCUIT WAS WIRED FOR 120 VOLTS AND MADE THE LAMPS SUSCEPTIBLE TO "LOW LINE VOLTAGE" FAILURES. THE BALLASTS CONTINUED TO OPERATE (HUM) AND UPON VISUAL INSPECTION THE LAMPS APPEARED NORMAL. THE FAILURE AFFECTED APPROXIMATELY 3/4 OF THE MH LAMPS AT ONE TIME. THE REMAINDER FAILED SHORTLY THERE AFTER.
HOPE IT HELPS

 

[charlie]

Re: Metal Halides in the Cold

Jbahr343, welcome to the forum. We are interested in your continued participation.

By the way, please turn off the Caps Lock, it looks like you are shouting at us.

 

[nvcape]

Re: Metal Halides in the Cold

This might be a stretch, but if the lamps are good, and there's nothing obvious, check the minimum voltage for the strike circuit.

 

[frenchelectrican]

Re: Metal Halides in the Cold

but some case i dont know if some bigger metal halides lumiaires some do have pulse starting device there to use for pulse start metal halide bulbs but for older style metal halides like probe start system espcally with " universal" type bulbs are pretty common cupits with cold weather starting some case some ballast just barely have engough voltage to "kick start" on probe types and many time i did see probe start metal halides can act very weird in cold weather some case some actally do kick off in cold and i did check the voltage to make sure there is no surge or dips at all and there were none but with univeral bulbs on horzintal oration is more supect with werid starting trouble with probe starting and if i remeber the starting restoir device in there useally stay on for 2 or 3 min then go off until cool off then try restrike it again so that one of few possiblty it can happend there

merci , marc