Meter base and disconnect.

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rileyll

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Location
Enola, PA
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Electrician
I have a project coming, and I could use some help. I am replacing a 200 Amp 3 phase delta system L1 120v l2 120v l3 240v meter base and going to a 400-amp 3-phase meter base. After the new meter base, I would like to connect a non-fused disconnect. The reason none fused is because, on the other side of the wall, there are 2 200 Amp main panels.
Here is where I could use some help. The 3rd party office that the township uses to process permits is saying I am installing a service disconnect 230.82 and that it must be placed on the service coming in before the meter. I explained that I do not want to put a meter disconnect but a disconnect for my service after the meter. He told me that I would have to bond this non-fused disconnect since it was the first means. I explained that from my understanding if the disconnect was not fused/breaker and the OCP was further upstream aka the other side of the wall inside the building (main panels) I could keep the bond at the panels. He says first means of disconnect but 250.30(a) (1) says first means of disconnect or at first OCP.
I could use help with 3 things
  1. What is the proper name for this none fused disconnect between the panel and meter base
    2 is bonding at first means of disconnect or OCP? (keep in mind that most disconnects I see are fused so I can understand people saying the first means of disconnect. Again 250.40 (a) (1) talks about this.
    3 what code allows me the above mention?
I would like to thank everyone for their time

@roger (info was updated)
 
The OCPD cannot be on the other side of the wall. If the OCPD is not a part of the service disconnect, it must be immediately adjacent thereto. The other side of the wall would not be compliant.
230.91 Location.
The service overcurrent device shall be an integral part of the service disconnecting means or shall be located immediately adjacent thereto. Where fuses are used as the service overcurrent device, the disconnecting means shall be located ahead of the supply side of the fuses.
Click to expand...
Nothing in section 250.30 applies to your installation. That is only for separately derived systems.
250.24(C) requires the main bonding jumper to be in the service equipment enclosure.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The OCPD cannot be on the other side of the wall. If the OCPD is not a part of the service disconnect, it must be immediately adjacent thereto. The other side of the wall would not be compliant.
Click to expand...
So I had that question too so to go over the scope of the project i had the inspector come out and he gave his blessing on location the permit 3rd party office was fine with this as well. But the permit office wanted me to bond the disconnect. Do you have any in-site on the 3 questions i asked?

I also want to add that from my understanding that this is a service disconnect not a meter disconnect is that correct what would the proper name be. I mostly do residential and we never install any disconnect. I have only ever installed a disconnect for outside ac units, air compressors hot tubs ect.
 
It doesn't matter what else you do, if the OCPD is inside and the disconnect is outside you get a red tag.

1) service disconnect
2) main bonding jumper must be installed in the service disconnect enclosure The rule is 250.24
3) nothing in the code allows the proposed installation.
 
The answer to #1 is just "disconnect", be it unconventional or not.
The answer to #2 you already know the answer to.
Since you are a qualified electrician it may help a bit to understand why do it that way? Because if its cheaper, safer and a better investment for the property owner then i guarantee you will have the attention and advice of some pretty darn good wiremen... Plus, why a 3rd party permit entity?
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
It doesn't matter what else you do, if the OCPD is inside and the disconnect is outside you get a red tag.

1) service disconnect
2) main bonding jumper must be installed in the service disconnect enclosure The rule is 250.24
3) nothing in the code allows the proposed installation.
Click to expand...
Don, although I agree with you, the wording "immediately adjacent thereto" Does not necessarily require the service disconnect and the OCPD to be on the same side of the wall. Apparently the OP's inspector is ok with it. Assuming the "immediately adjacent thereto" is not an issue, then the answer to the OP's questions are:

1. The NF disconnect is the service disconnect.
2. The NFD get a main bonding jumper and everything on the supply side of that is also bonded to neutral. Everything on the load side of it has N-G separate.
3. 250.30 is regarding separately derived systems. See 250.24(A)(5) and 250.142.
 
rambojoe said:
The answer to #1 is just "disconnect", be it unconventional or not.
The answer to #2 you already know the answer to.
Since you are a qualified electrician it may help a bit to understand why do it that way? Because if its cheaper, safer and a better investment then i guarantee you will have the attention and advice of some pretty darn good wiremen...
Click to expand...

electrofelon said:
Don, although I agree with you, the wording "immediately adjacent thereto" Does not necessarily require the service disconnect and the OCPD to be on the same side of the wall. Apparently the OP's inspector is ok with it. Assuming the "immediately adjacent thereto" is not an issue, then the answer to the OP's questions are:

1. The NF disconnect is the service disconnect.
2. The NFD get a main bonding jumper and everything on the supply side of that is also bonded to neutral. Everything on the load side of it has N-G separate.
3. 250.30 is regarding separately derived systems. See 250.24(A)(5) and 250.142.
Click to expand...
I do see 250.142 thank you but I not see 250.24(A)(5) i only have it going to (4) I am using the 2023 book.

Thank you very much for your help means a lot.
 
electrofelon said:
Don, although I agree with you, the wording "immediately adjacent thereto" Does not necessarily require the service disconnect and the OCPD to be on the same side of the wall. Apparently the OP's inspector is ok with it. Assuming the "immediately adjacent thereto" is not an issue, then the answer to the OP's questions are:

1. The NF disconnect is the service disconnect.
2. The NFD get a main bonding jumper and everything on the supply side of that is also bonded to neutral. Everything on the load side of it has N-G separate.
3. 250.30 is regarding separately derived systems. See 250.24(A)(5) and 250.142.
Click to expand...
It does to me and every inspector I have ever talked to, It gets a red tag from me
 
rambojoe said:
The answer to #1 is just "disconnect", be it unconventional or not.
The answer to #2 you already know the answer to.
Since you are a qualified electrician it may help a bit to understand why do it that way? Because if its cheaper, safer and a better investment for the property owner then i guarantee you will have the attention and advice of some pretty darn good wiremen... Plus, why a 3rd party permit entity?
Click to expand...
Because the township uses this 3rd party for building permits, not my choice. I was not hired to clean up the messy panels in this room just upgrade service. But its looking like i will have to make these panels be sub panels since the bonding has to happen at disconnect.
 
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