Meter Can and Disconect on Pole

[pbbbfischer]

I have a situation where the Service Utility provides the meter can, 200amp breaker and 3 sets of lugs below the breaker in one enclosure. (3-phase A lugs, 3-phase B lugs and 3-netural lugs) All on the meter pole. I will need to feed 3 separate buildings from this point. All will be burried in PVC directly out of this "all in one" meter can. I will have grounding electrodes at each building.

The utility has a grounding electrode on the bottom of the pole and an 8" rod next to the pole attached to the service neutral at the top of the pole. Is there a need for me to install another grounding electrode at that can before I feed the 3 buildings? Do I need to pull an equipment ground to each separate building or just bond each service entrance panel?

Thanks, Pbbb

 

[kwired]

You may want to discuss this with AHJ as to whether or not they consider the disconnect at the pole to be considered the service disconnect. If it is POCO supplied and maintained some AHJ do not consider it to be the service disconnect, partly because the POCO could change it to something different and if that something is not service rated equipment we have complicated things, though the rest of the installation may or may not be in compliance. Especially was true when we were permitted to run feeders without an EGC, but if you ran EGC's now and the disconnect at each building was suitable for use as service equipment (which it needs to be anyway) it kind of doesn't really matter.

Additional ground rod at the pole - I also say depends on if that equipment is considered under control of the POCO or is customer's responsibility. If you supply any outlet(s) at the pole in any way, I could see need for an additional rod even if the meter equipment/disconnect is POCO controlled, but not necessarily if you are only leaving the pole with feeds to other buildings.

 

[pbbbfischer]

You may want to discuss this with AHJ

Additional ground rod at the pole - I also say depends on if that equipment is considered under control of the POCO or is customer's responsibility. If you supply any outlet(s) at the pole in any way, I could see need for an additional rod even if the meter equipment/disconnect is POCO controlled, but not necessarily if you are only leaving the pole with feeds to other buildings.

This is a Rural Electric Co-op and there is no AHJ. This is there equipmemt and there can be nothing on their pole not even an outlet which would need some kind of OC device. The only thing you are permitted to do is hook to their lugs and feed from those.

If I understand what you are saying is that if you could install a OC device and an outlet it would then require an Grounding Electrode.

My plan at this point is not to pull an EGC and no extra Grounding Electrode at the pole.

Pbbb

 

[kwired]

This is a Rural Electric Co-op and there is no AHJ. This is there equipmemt and there can be nothing on their pole not even an outlet which would need some kind of OC device. The only thing you are permitted to do is hook to their lugs and feed from those.

If I understand what you are saying is that if you could install a OC device and an outlet it would then require an Grounding Electrode.

My plan at this point is not to pull an EGC and no extra Grounding Electrode at the pole.

Pbbb

No lawfully provided AHJ means you are the AHJ or at least the one making such decisions that would otherwise be made by an AHJ representative. You may or may not have a State AHJ that sets some rules even though they might not come inspect your work.

Around here those rural POCO installed disconnects are not considered service equipment - even though in many cases the customer does pay for them and is considered the owner of such equipment. This is because one day overcurrent protection may be present protecting lines that leave the pole, and another day equipment may be changed by POCO and then it is left without overcurrent protection.

 

[pbbbfischer]

The customer has had the same pole and transformer since 1957 and had 2 houses and a small workshop on a 50amp breaker and a 20amp breaker for the water pump at the pole for all. I don't know how they never had any trouble. POCO charged them $165 to set a new pole, transformer and meter loop. I guess one could argue that since it was in since 1957 there should have been no charge.

The pole snapped off at the ground when they were cutting the drops loose and tension shifted. I think they got their money out of that one.

Thanks, Pbbb

P.S Is there a maximum distance that the grounding electrode can be from the SE at each building. I may have some rock to deal with close to the structure?

 

[ActionDave]

This is a Rural Electric Co-op and there is no AHJ. This is there equipmemt and there can be nothing on their pole not even an outlet which would need some kind of OC device. The only thing you are permitted to do is hook to their lugs and feed from those.

If I understand what you are saying is that if you could install a OC device and an outlet it would then require an Grounding Electrode.

My plan at this point is not to pull an EGC and no extra Grounding Electrode at the pole.

Pbbb

Sounds good to me.

 

[jumper]

P.S Is there a maximum distance that the grounding electrode can be from the SE at each building. I may have some rock to deal with close to the structure?

No unless you have a local amendment requiring else wise.

250.20(A)(4) Grounding Electrode. The grounding electrode shall
be as near as practicable to, and preferably in the same area
as, the grounding electrode conductor connection to the
system. The grounding electrode shall be the nearest of one
of the following:

(1) Metal water pipe grounding electrode as specified in
250.52(A)(1)
(2) Structural metal grounding electrode as specified in
250.52(A)(2)

Exception No. 1: Any of the other electrodes identified in
250.52(A) shall be used if the electrodes specified by
250.30(A)(4) are not available.

 

[electricalist]

 

[hurk27]

No unless you have a local amendment requiring else wise.

250.20(A)(4) Grounding Electrode. The grounding electrode shall
be as near as practicable to, and preferably in the same area
as, the grounding electrode conductor connection to the
system. The grounding electrode shall be the nearest of one
of the following:

(1) Metal water pipe grounding electrode as specified in
250.52(A)(1)
(2) Structural metal grounding electrode as specified in
250.52(A)(2)

Exception No. 1: Any of the other electrodes identified in
250.52(A) shall be used if the electrodes specified by
250.30(A)(4) are not available.

Unless your not under the 2014, as 250.20(A) was for systems with a voltage of 50 volts or less in 2011 and earlier.

Each buildings electrode system is a separate system, the electrode system at the pole is only for the pole, it has nothing to do with the electrodes at each building.

For that matter the disconnect is not even required at the pole as 230.70 only requires a disconnect where conductors enter a structure, and since no conductors enter the pole there is no disconnect requirement or OCPD, it is just there for convenience so power can be shut off when the conductors to the buildings are connected, at least this is what the NEC says, which to me makes the conductors feeding the buildings still service conductors, and this is also where 230.40 exception #1, and #3 would kick in and allow one set of service entrance conductors run to each building.