Meter Main and water meter bonding

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SomeRandomPerson

SomeRandomPerson

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Location
Massachusetts
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Electrician
Quick question. I’m new to doing service changes. Did a walk through today and we’ll be bringing conductors down from the point if attachment in 2” pvc, to a 200amp meter main. Is it accurate to consider everything past that breaker to the main panel as if it were a sub panel and grounds and neutrals are now separate? Does it also mean the water meter grounding electrode should be brought back to the meter? The journeyman I walked through with today said several things, corrected himself then changed his mind again. I’m just an apprentice and a bit hesitant to question him outright.


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SomeRandomPerson said:
Is it accurate to consider everything past that breaker to the main panel as if it were a sub panel and grounds and neutrals are now separate?
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Yes.

SomeRandomPerson said:
Does it also mean the water meter grounding electrode should be brought back to the meter?
Click to expand...
Yes.

SomeRandomPerson said:
The journeyman I walked through with today said several things, corrected himself then changed his mind again. I’m just an apprentice and a bit hesitant to question him outright.
Click to expand...
Tell him you want to learn; that you're not questioning him.
 
You'd just throw a couple ground rods in and the meter. You can bond the water main/meter to the equipment ground bus in your sub panel.

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Mod augie47 CAUTION See Post #5 Below
 
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250.24(A)(1). Electrodes to be terminated at service equipment.
 
LarryFine said:
Yes.


Yes.


Tell him you want to learn; that you're not questioning him.
Click to expand...

Ok so I’m not crazy? Thank you for the confirmation.
I’ve tried the “I just want to learn” angle. They’ve already taken other apprentices away from him in the past for being very aggressive and outright belligerent. I’ll just keep on being quiet, polite and to take your advice. I’ll have my license soon enough


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Greentagger said:
250.24(A)(1). Electrodes to be terminated at service equipment.
Click to expand...
Meter mains and service drops are very new to me. I’ve mostly been just running branch circuits till this point in my apprenticeship .
I understand it as the meter main, having the first OCPD is considered the service equipment and that from that point on, neutrals and grounds are separated in the main panel as if it’s a sub panel.
thank you for the reply and guiding me to the portion of 250
 
Not to “stir the pot” and cause confusion. But is Mass, on the 2020 NEC? If so meter main could be used as emergency disconnect? Therefor just running service conductors to the house panel ‘service disco’

Up until now installing a meter main outside and than treating the main house panel as the sub has been the ‘norm’.

But 2020 threw a twirl in there, of which are several good threads on here about it.

But in laymen terms with 2020 requirements of emergency disconnects on the outside of the dwelling, the meter main could be just that if listed for (most should have labels that come with) for you to label emergency disconnect,

than continuing just your service conductors with no EGC to the house panel which is now the service disconnect where your EGC will originate.
 
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Dsg319 said:
Not to “stir the pot” and cause confusion. But is Mass, on the 2020 NEC? If so meter main could be used as emergency disconnect? Therefor just running service conductors to the house panel ‘service disco’

Up until now installing a meter main outside and than treating the main house panel as the sub has been the ‘norm’.

But 2020 threw a twirl in there, of which are several good threads on here about it.

But in laymen terms with 2020 requirements of emergency disconnects (neutral bonded) on the outside of the dwelling, the meter main could be just that if listed for (most should have labels that come with) for you to label emergency disconnect,

than continuing just your service conductors with no EGC to the house panel which is now the service disconnect where your EGC will originate.
Click to expand...

Oh you’ve stirred the pot alright!
MASS is on 2020 NEC. I’m totally green when it comes to services but finally starting to get some time doing them.
So if I take the label off, it’s not considered an Emergency Disconnect?


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SomeRandomPerson said:
Oh you’ve stirred the pot alright!
MASS is on 2020 NEC. I’m totally green when it comes to services but finally starting to get some time doing them.
So if I take the label off, it’s not considered an Emergency Disconnect?


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Should be able to put both labels on, service disconnect and emergency disconnect and knock out two birds with one stone….. don’t put money on what I just said though, we’ll see what others say.

But essentially I think they come with both service disconnect and emergency disconnect labels.
 
Dsg319 said:
Let me see if I can find some good picture examples.
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Appreciate it as I look at my Mike Holt Changes to the NEC book, 230.66 Marking for Service Disconnect.
It’s not as clear as I first thought. I intend to bond the water meter to the meter main and isolate the neutral and ground in the main panel but now I’m a bit confused on the labeling......
Dsg319 said:
Dsg319 said:
Should be able to put both labels on, service disconnect and emergency disconnect and knock out two birds with one stone….. don’t put money on what I just said though, we’ll see what others say.

But essentially I think they come with both service disconnect and emergency disconnect labels.
Click to expand...
My journeyman hasn’t done his code update yet. Perhaps he was unaware of this change....
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I appreciate the help. You folks are very helpful to us young guys
 
SomeRandomPerson said:
Appreciate it as I look at my Mike Holt Changes to the NEC book, 230.66 Marking for Service Disconnect.
It’s not as clear as I first thought. I intend to bond the water meter to the meter main and isolate the neutral and ground in the main panel but now I’m a bit confused on the labeling......

I appreciate the help. You folks are very helpful to us young guys
Click to expand...
If I understand what you are doing correctly, you can have your meter main serve as both emergency and service disconnect. Which would just mean putting both provided labels on it, and of course than having your EGC originate out at the meter main since it is your service disconnect as well.
 
DrSparks said:
I don't consider a water main a grounding electrode. I consider it something that needs to be bonded. This can be done using the equipment ground.

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The decision as to whether or not it's a grounding electrode depends on the amount of metallic pipe in contact with the earth. If it is an electrode it needs to follow 250.52 & 250.53. If it only needs bonding then 250.104(A). In either event it needs to connect back to the service, not a sub-panel.
 
augie47 said:
The decision as to whether or not it's a grounding electrode depends on the amount of metallic pipe in contact with the earth. If it is an electrode it needs to follow 250.52 & 250.53. If it only needs bonding then 250.104(A). In either event it needs to connect back to the service, not a sub-panel.
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It's almost certainly not a viable electrode. Many water utilities are installing dielectric unions now.

Also, I'm pretty sure you can bond within 6 ft of the water main also. The grounding electrode should be extended to the main building.

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