THE RURAL COOPERATIVE INSTALLED A COMBINATION METERBASE/200AMP DISCONNECT WITH 3 BARREL TAPS FOR EACH CONNECTION ON THE LOAD SIDE OF THE DISCONNECT. TO HOOKUP A 100 AMP PANEL ON A HOUSE AM I REQUIRED TO RUN 200AMP WIRE OR CAN I RUN 100AMP WIRE. WHAT IS THE ARTICLES THAT PERTAIN TO THIS. I SEEN IT DONE ALOT OF WAYS BUT DON'T THINK THERE ALL WITH IN CODE.
meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
- Thread starter mwolf
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charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
This is not a forum to teach non-electricians how to do electrical work. You need to get a qualified person to do this work or, at least, advise you on the proper methods so you don't kill yourself or your family.
It is not my intent to trash you but it is obvious that you need more help than this forum should attempt to give you.
This is not a forum to teach non-electricians how to do electrical work. You need to get a qualified person to do this work or, at least, advise you on the proper methods so you don't kill yourself or your family.
It is not my intent to trash you but it is obvious that you need more help than this forum should attempt to give you.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
I agree if you cant answer that question then....
kind of strong in the answer charlie !!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree if you cant answer that question then....
kind of strong in the answer charlie !!!!!!!!!!!!
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
mwolf
If the run to the main breaker panel is nearest to the outside that it can be then the 100 amp main can be used to protect the wires. as it would not matter if the disconect is fused or not. we install 100 amp panels all the time that dont even have fuses protecting the service entrance wires.
230.90 (A) Exception No. 3: Two to six circuit breakers or sets of fuses shall be permitted as the overcurrent device to provide the overload protection. The sum of the ratings of the circuit breakers or fuses shall be permitted to exceed the ampacity of the service conductors, provided the calculated load does not exceed the ampacity of the service conductors.
mwolf
If the run to the main breaker panel is nearest to the outside that it can be then the 100 amp main can be used to protect the wires. as it would not matter if the disconect is fused or not. we install 100 amp panels all the time that dont even have fuses protecting the service entrance wires.
230.90 (A) Exception No. 3: Two to six circuit breakers or sets of fuses shall be permitted as the overcurrent device to provide the overload protection. The sum of the ratings of the circuit breakers or fuses shall be permitted to exceed the ampacity of the service conductors, provided the calculated load does not exceed the ampacity of the service conductors.
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
Mwolf I agree with Hurk.
I think this is a good question and the 200 amp. sorta throws some of us off.
Under normal conditions if you are just going to penetrate the wall from the outside and put your service panel on the other side of the wall inside you would have conductors rated at 100 amps. on this installation anyway.
Having part of the conductor rated at 200 amp. is just a plus and really makes it safer.And you can use the 200 amp. disc. as a emergencey disc. for outside another plus.
If you went a good distance which varies from location to location after you enter the Bldg. you would be required to set a 100 amp. breaker close to 200 amp.on the load side before you run your home or service entrance conductor to your 100 amp. panel.Of course I know you probably knew this.
But check with your Bldg. dept. first before you use 100 amp. wire.
Ronald
Mwolf I agree with Hurk.
I think this is a good question and the 200 amp. sorta throws some of us off.
Under normal conditions if you are just going to penetrate the wall from the outside and put your service panel on the other side of the wall inside you would have conductors rated at 100 amps. on this installation anyway.
Having part of the conductor rated at 200 amp. is just a plus and really makes it safer.And you can use the 200 amp. disc. as a emergencey disc. for outside another plus.
If you went a good distance which varies from location to location after you enter the Bldg. you would be required to set a 100 amp. breaker close to 200 amp.on the load side before you run your home or service entrance conductor to your 100 amp. panel.Of course I know you probably knew this.
But check with your Bldg. dept. first before you use 100 amp. wire.
Ronald
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
Why not install a 200 amp panel? The cost difference is minimal.
Why not install a 200 amp panel? The cost difference is minimal.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
My concern is that the work be safe when it is finished. With the way the question was worded, I think the quality of the work would be suspect unless someone were around that knew how and what to do with this installation. A connection that was made incorrectly could cause a fire; an attempt to work something hot could hurt or kill the worker.
With all that said, I did come on too strong and I do apologize. Sorry, Charlie.
I agree, you are correct, MWolf, I apologize.
My concern is that the work be safe when it is finished. With the way the question was worded, I think the quality of the work would be suspect unless someone were around that knew how and what to do with this installation. A connection that was made incorrectly could cause a fire; an attempt to work something hot could hurt or kill the worker.
With all that said, I did come on too strong and I do apologize. Sorry, Charlie.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
This web site and forum is not inteneded for non electricians, from the home page
"This site is designed for:
Contractors
Electricians
Engineers
Inspectors
Instructors
Other electrically related individuals"
Charlies answer was entirely appropiate.
This web site and forum is not inteneded for non electricians, from the home page
"This site is designed for:
Contractors
Electricians
Engineers
Inspectors
Instructors
Other electrically related individuals"
Charlies answer was entirely appropiate.
james wuebker
Senior Member
- Location
- Iowa
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
mwolf, most of the people are correct on staying that you really should have a electrican help you or do the work for you if your not sure. But if your going to do it anyway we all should try to help you to install this correct. If you run a 100a wire for your house from your 200a disconnect then you need to make sure you have a 100a main breaker in your panel in the house. Now if you don't have a main breaker in your house 100a panel you need to run 200a wire for your panel. I hope this will help.
Bye now
mwolf, most of the people are correct on staying that you really should have a electrican help you or do the work for you if your not sure. But if your going to do it anyway we all should try to help you to install this correct. If you run a 100a wire for your house from your 200a disconnect then you need to make sure you have a 100a main breaker in your panel in the house. Now if you don't have a main breaker in your house 100a panel you need to run 200a wire for your panel. I hope this will help.
Bye now
jtb
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
Thanx James W.
Thanx James W.
james wuebker
Senior Member
- Location
- Iowa
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
Yes Mike, he should treat it as a Sub panel but the main breaker for it will be in the panel. He will need to run 4 wires to this panel. 2 hots, a neutral and a grounding wire from his 200a disconnect outside that will be feed this panel to the house.Bye now
Yes Mike, he should treat it as a Sub panel but the main breaker for it will be in the panel. He will need to run 4 wires to this panel. 2 hots, a neutral and a grounding wire from his 200a disconnect outside that will be feed this panel to the house.Bye now
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
If there is a 200 amp breaker at the meter serving as the service disconnect, then what code section would permit you to connect 100 amp wire to the load side of the 200 amp breaker?
Don
If there is a 200 amp breaker at the meter serving as the service disconnect, then what code section would permit you to connect 100 amp wire to the load side of the 200 amp breaker?
Don
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
I apologize for sounding like I,m not an electrician,but I am. The question was intended to see what was common practice in other areas.
The area where the work was done there are no AHJ'S.
The job was done using 2/0 copper and 4 wire system ,The panel that was used is 200 mb panel.
I concidered this a subpanel.
Thanks to all for input!
I apologize for sounding like I,m not an electrician,but I am. The question was intended to see what was common practice in other areas.
The area where the work was done there are no AHJ'S.
The job was done using 2/0 copper and 4 wire system ,The panel that was used is 200 mb panel.
I concidered this a subpanel.
Thanks to all for input!
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
Tom,
I forgot about that one. You would have to check with the AHJ first, as some do not considder a connection an OCPD to be a "conductor tap" as required in the first part of 240.21(B).
Don
Tom,
I forgot about that one. You would have to check with the AHJ first, as some do not considder a connection an OCPD to be a "conductor tap" as required in the first part of 240.21(B).
Don
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
The 100 amp. should be treated as a 100 amp. sub panel and a 100 amp. breaker set outside with the 200 amp. and a 4 wire feed to the 100amp. sub panel inside.
We don't know if the power utility knew if it was going to be a 100 amp. or 200 amp?
If they knew it was going to be a 100 amp. and set a 200 amp. don't you think this should be taken into consideration?
Ronald
None Don
The 100 amp. should be treated as a 100 amp. sub panel and a 100 amp. breaker set outside with the 200 amp. and a 4 wire feed to the 100amp. sub panel inside.
We don't know if the power utility knew if it was going to be a 100 amp. or 200 amp?
If they knew it was going to be a 100 amp. and set a 200 amp. don't you think this should be taken into consideration?
Ronald
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
EVERYONE HAS SOME PRETTY GOOD INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE,BUT I SEE THAT THIS IS LIKE MOST ARTICLES OF THE CODE. DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ASK THERE IS A DIFFERENT ARTICLE TO REFERENCE AND THAT TWO PEOPLE CAN READ IT,AND GET TWO DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS.
I LIVE IN A COUNTY WHERE THERE ARE NO CODES,AND WORK WHERE THERE ARE. THE TYPICAL INSTALLATION ON RURAL PROPERTY,IN MOST NON METROPOLITION AREAS WHERE FARMING TAKES PLACE IS TO SET AN 200 AMP OR 400 AMP METERBASE WITH EITHER A SINGLE 200 AMP,OR 400 AMP,WITH 2 200 AMP MAIN IN THE CENTER OF YOU BUILDING LAYOUT AND WITH THESE MULTI TAP BREAKERS AS I CALL THEM,WIRE TO ALL THEIR OUT BUILDINGS AND WHAT EVER THEY SO WANT FROM THIS DISTRUBTION POLE.THERE IS USUALLY NO OVERCURRENT PROTECT ON THE FEEDERS.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO START ANYTHING, BUT WAS WANTING TO GET A GENERAL OPINION OF HOW THIS WAS DONE IN OTHER AREAS.
EVERYONE HAS SOME PRETTY GOOD INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE,BUT I SEE THAT THIS IS LIKE MOST ARTICLES OF THE CODE. DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ASK THERE IS A DIFFERENT ARTICLE TO REFERENCE AND THAT TWO PEOPLE CAN READ IT,AND GET TWO DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS.
I LIVE IN A COUNTY WHERE THERE ARE NO CODES,AND WORK WHERE THERE ARE. THE TYPICAL INSTALLATION ON RURAL PROPERTY,IN MOST NON METROPOLITION AREAS WHERE FARMING TAKES PLACE IS TO SET AN 200 AMP OR 400 AMP METERBASE WITH EITHER A SINGLE 200 AMP,OR 400 AMP,WITH 2 200 AMP MAIN IN THE CENTER OF YOU BUILDING LAYOUT AND WITH THESE MULTI TAP BREAKERS AS I CALL THEM,WIRE TO ALL THEIR OUT BUILDINGS AND WHAT EVER THEY SO WANT FROM THIS DISTRUBTION POLE.THERE IS USUALLY NO OVERCURRENT PROTECT ON THE FEEDERS.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO START ANYTHING, BUT WAS WANTING TO GET A GENERAL OPINION OF HOW THIS WAS DONE IN OTHER AREAS.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
Ron,
I have to say that Tom is correct that the outside tap rule in 240.21(B)(5) will permit the 100 amp wire to be connected to the 200 amp breaker at the meter and run to the 100 amp main breaker in the panel. You are correct that a 4 wire installation is required to the 100 amp panel.
Don
Ron,
I have to say that Tom is correct that the outside tap rule in 240.21(B)(5) will permit the 100 amp wire to be connected to the 200 amp breaker at the meter and run to the 100 amp main breaker in the panel. You are correct that a 4 wire installation is required to the 100 amp panel.
Don
Re: meterbase with 200 amp disconnect
Since this is a feeder ( load side of the 200A Service Equipment ), and the 200A Main Disconnect is out side, then 225.9 should prevail.
No mention of the feeder length by the original post.
The panelboard within the home should be considered a lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard of 408.16(A) [ as referenced by 240.21(B) FPN.
The 100A panelboard would require 100A OCP.
Glenn
Since this is a feeder ( load side of the 200A Service Equipment ), and the 200A Main Disconnect is out side, then 225.9 should prevail.
No mention of the feeder length by the original post.
The panelboard within the home should be considered a lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard of 408.16(A) [ as referenced by 240.21(B) FPN.
The 100A panelboard would require 100A OCP.
Glenn
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