MeterMain back2back into house panel

[Short.Circuit]

so, i'm taking over a service from another electrician, who is now sick. he's got a 200A metermain (meterbase with 1 200A breaker in it) on the side of the residence. 2" rigid mast through roof. I'm putting a 200A panel, directly inside, same stud bay, etc. I would use a regular old meterbase if it was me, no need for outside breaker. Anyway, is the panel inside the house, now a subpanel? it has its own 200A main breaker in it. I was just trying to figure out if I need to seperate out the grounds/neutral & run 4 svc wires to panel.
thx 4 any advice

 

[Strahan]

so, i'm taking over a service from another electrician, who is now sick. he's got a 200A metermain (meterbase with 1 200A breaker in it) on the side of the residence. 2" rigid mast through roof. I'm putting a 200A panel, directly inside, same stud bay, etc. I would use a regular old meterbase if it was me, no need for outside breaker. Anyway, is the panel inside the house, now a subpanel? it has its own 200A main breaker in it. I was just trying to figure out if I need to seperate out the grounds/neutral & run 4 svc wires to panel.
thx 4 any advice

I'm sure you can make your bonding connections in the outside disconnect and then run 3-wire to the panelboard as long as the raceway is listed for use as equipment ground and bonding bushings are used. Trying to locate code references for you.

 

[brantmacga]

no its not a sub-panel.


you can use a rigid nipple to go back-to-back or SEU between them.

The neutral is already bonded at the meter base. (double-check this though)

Just make sure to use the bonding screw in the loadcenter, 3-wire feeder and you're all set.

 

[Strahan]

no its not a sub-panel.


you can use a rigid nipple to go back-to-back or SEU between them.

The neutral is already bonded at the meter base. (double-check this though)

Just make sure to use the bonding screw in the loadcenter, 3-wire feeder and you're all set.

Would you want to install the green bonding screw? or should the grounds and neutrals remain separated in the panle due to the fact you bonded in the meter base? I was under the understanding the bonding took place at the first disconnecting means and nowhere else.

 

[Strahan]

Maybe I'm off here but the bonding sould occur in the first disconnecting means which would be the outside disconnect. Not sure if this makes the inside panel a subpanel or not but the wires running from the outside disconnect to the inside panel would now become feeders and as I posted wrong before would need an equipment grounding conductor 215.6. Help me out if I'm wrong.

I know this has been discussed alot in the past. I believe the outside disconnect is the service.

 

[fireryan]

Maybe I'm off here but the bonding sould occur in the first disconnecting means which would be the outside disconnect. Not sure if this makes the inside panel a subpanel or not but the wires running from the outside disconnect to the inside panel would now become feeders and as I posted wrong before would need an equipment grounding conductor 215.6. Help me out if I'm wrong.

I know this has been discussed alot in the past. I believe the outside disconnect is the service.

I agree. Bonding should occur in the first means of disconnnect then run a 4 wire to the panel with the ground and neutral isolated. No real reason for the dissconect outside though

 

[Short.Circuit]

i'm going to SE between the MB & Panel. the bonding wires & GEC r currently run into the panel inside. Perhaps I'll run 3W SE & see if the insp. sez anything.

 

[Strahan]

I agree. Bonding should occur in the first means of disconnnect then run a 4 wire to the panel with the ground and neutral isolated. No real reason for the dissconect outside though

I personnally am not a fan of outside disconnects either they seem to add confusion and I just don't like them.

 

[fireryan]

i'm going to SE between the MB & Panel. the bonding wires & GEC r currently run into the panel inside. Perhaps I'll run 3W SE & see if the insp. sez anything.

your gec will need to run to the panel outside

 

[fireryan]

I personnally am not a fan of outside disconnects either they seem to add confusion and I just don't like them.

here they are required if the panel is 8ft from the meter or if in a flood plain. They are also required on rental props

 

[Strahan]

i'm going to SE between the MB & Panel. the bonding wires & GEC r currently run into the panel inside. Perhaps I'll run 3W SE & see if the insp. sez anything.

No you will need 4-wire. Oops see I've been beat to the punch.

 

[fireryan]

glad we agree

 

[Dennis Alwon]

i'm going to SE between the MB & Panel. the bonding wires & GEC r currently run into the panel inside. Perhaps I'll run 3W SE & see if the insp. sez anything.

What am I missing? If you have a meter main combo unit outside then you need 4 wires to the interior panel whether the interior panel has a main or not. Bonding does occur outside in the main disco.

 

[hillbilly]

What am I missing? If you have a meter main combo unit outside then you need 4 wires to the interior panel whether the interior panel has a main or not. Bonding does occur outside in the main disco.

You're not missing anything, that's the way it is.

It doesn't matter if the inside panel is 1 foot or 50 feet away from the main.

Just because the inside panel has a 200A disconnect has no bearing.

The first electrician probably bought a "Main breaker panel" for the inside instead of a MLO because you can buy a "Main Breaker Contractor's Kit" with breakers included cheaper than you can buy a MLO panel without any breakers included.

I do this all the time.

The outside Main may simply be a required for the location.

Just my opinion.
steve

 

[growler]

The first electrician probably bought a "Main breaker panel" for the inside instead of a MLO because you can buy a "Main Breaker Contractor's Kit" with breakers included cheaper than you can buy a MLO panel without any breakers included.

I do this all the time.

I do the same thing. It doesn't cost me anything extra and is no extra trouble so why not.

I figure if there is ever a fire the Fire Department can use the outside disconnected and the one at the panel is easier for the homeowner to find. Very few main breakers ever go bad so the odds on extra trouble down the road is minimal.

 

[infinity]

So yes, the panel is a sub-panel. The GEC will run to the meter main outside. The connection to the panel will require 4 conductors so SER can be used if using SE cable. A separate ground bar will be needed in the panel inside.

 

[brantmacga]

i missed the fact that the meterbase has a 200A breaker in it.

so yes its a sub-panel.


but if its back-to-back, why would he put a 200A disco outside?


waste of money.

 

[Short.Circuit]

Update: It looks like the guy had this planned from the get-go. I found another UFER, that makes 2.

Personally, I'm with brantmacga, i'd never do it this way. so 4w it is.
GEC & water/gas bond r going outside.