Mike Holt class

[dcspector]

I just attended My first Mike Holt class on Grounding vs. Bonding (Connected) I have attended many others since 1993 but Mike.....Whew!....I just woke up on several issues....as a lot of others did. Also, I met a few of us Forum members and that was great. Mike Holt classes are highly recommended for those in the trade and Inspectors.

Thanks again Mike

Greg

 

[brian john]

I think one thing that sets this seminar apart from other Grounding Seminars is; well Mike Holt and his dynamic personality and most grounding seminars cover theroy or NEC few incorporate both throughly.

I have taken several seminars where I felt I knew more than the instructors, that was not the case here.

 

[dcspector]

Brian, well said and was great to meet you today. The best was generators, for me. SDS vs. non SDS..Excellent....I actually understand, due to Mike's theory.

 

[tom baker]

There is more confusion on generators than any other subject in the NEC.
I knew the how but Mike showed me the why.

 

[NoVA Comms Power]

Greg / Brian:

It indeed was a great and informative day and it was good to meet you two.

I particularly enjoyed Mike's explanation of how "big earth" has near-zero resistance (due to an effectively-infinite # of parallel paths) ... while what is commonly called "earth resistance" can far more easily be thought of as "terminal resistance".

IMO, that explanation was inspired!

Jim

 

[dcspector]

Jim, it was great to meet you. We now have faces with posts....so to speak.

 

[bphgravity]

The one thing to remember is that most of our electrical knowledge has amounted to not much more than theory. Many issues have not and cannot be considered LAW. The same discussions and arguments we are having today about grounding were also taking place 100 year ago and earlier during the development of the code. A lot of things have changed but a whole lot of things have not. Some of the language in Article 250 looks identical if not exactly like many chapters and sections in old telegraph and power station books.

Mr. Holt and staff have made great strides in getting electricians, engineers, and other industry professionals at the least reconsidering their concepts and beliefs about grounding and its purpose. This is how change and development of new ideas start.

First, you have to get rid of your misconceptions and your ideas you have blind certainty about.

Second, you have to look at the history of things to see how we got to where we are today.

Third, you have to open yourself to the idea that what you know at this very moment may not be what is true or thought to be true years from now thus allowing you to adapt and change.

Lastly, you must take every opportunity that presents itself to learn of the new ideas and concepts no matter how far out they may seem and continue to work towards making things better for future codes.

In my opinion, you are not a complete electrician until you engage yourself and learn where we have been, where we are, and where we are going. Too many of us are stuck in just today. This is too narrow sighted for any real understanding of electricity and the code.

 

[JohnJ0906]

I took it the day before in Columbia, MD, and enjoyed it a great deal, and learned a lot! I enjoyed Mike's teaching style a great deal as well. He went through the class beforehand and tried to speak to everyone for a minute or 2. When I told him I had learned of the semensr through this forum, and that I enjoyed it, He laughed. He told me for a while at the beginning, he didn't even know he HAD this forum on his website until someone brought it up at a semenar.

 

[bphgravity]

Did Mike happen to mention anything about his "Grounding History" book he was once planning on publishing? I think it has been two years now since he first made comment about it.

Did he happen to mention anything about a man named C.F. Varley and the 25-ohm history at this seminar?

 

[brian john]

Bryan:

30 some years ago I was on a job where a new UPS was being installed and no one could figure out how to install it. I asked one simple question did anyone read the book? NO. So I read the book. I then became the company expert on UPS’s, I did the same for ground fault protection, megging cable, torquing connections , IR, power quality and I offered to teach others and share my reading material. Most of it ended up in the trash.

I would go to jobs as the company expert and the electricians would give me a hard time, telling me they did the hard construction and I took all the gravy, that was rightfully theirs. I would offer to teach them. All it took was to say “I’ll stay late to show you how to do this; no one ever took me up on my offer.”

How many electricians do you know use this site? I tell everyone I know about this site I have yet to see one here. I also download and print information for others, for years I put a weekly letter in the employees pay checks with some pertinent data to help improve the knowledge of my employees. Later I would quiz them and most would stare at me like a deer in the headlights, or make something up. I finally asked them if they read the letter all answered honestly that their wives got their checks and threw the news letter away.

Heck EC&M is now free in 1970 it cost money to recieve this magazine, I bought year after year. With it free ask electricians you meet how many recieve this publication.

I’m of the opinion that MOST electricians can’t read or don’t bother reading, many do not care about educating themselves, others are lazy, some too busy with other things. To many this is just a job and they just as easily could work at Mickey D’s. I just hope and pray my Doctors do not follow this philosophy.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Heck EC&M is now free in 1970 it cost money to recieve this magazine, ...

It was a far better publication back then...not near as many manufacturer written articles.
Don

 

[brian john]

Don I agree with that and I would rather pay for the mag, but advertisment seems to drive everything. I also think it was thicker then.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Bryan:


I?m of the opinion that MOST electricians can?t read or don?t bother reading, many do not care about educating themselves, others are lazy, some too busy with other things. To many this is just a job and they just as easily could work at Mickey D?s. I just hope and pray my Doctors do not follow this philosophy.

Brian
I agree with this statment somewhat. Let me explain what I mean by this.

There are many out there who do not take classes or try to learn anymore. Why? I feel it is because there are so many conflicting answers. Not just in the reading, but mostly in the field. The people they ask questions of will come up with different answers. These guys who are asking are tired of asking and do not want to sound stupid, so they have stopped asking and are just doing. I had a conversation today with an EC about this very topic.

What is needed for this industry is more consistancy in the education and enforcement. With that, I think more would be interested in spending their precious free time learning more about this great trade.

 

[NoVA Comms Power]

... Did he happen to mention anything about a man named C.F. Varley and the 25-ohm history at this seminar? ...

I think he did, but it was small, fast-moving part of a larger "firehose stream" on a related topic.

Mike did give me 120 pdf files (150 Mb total) containing many pieces of the historical background used in his seminar. (including some of Mr. Uffer's original papers from the early 1960's)

I'm still combing-through the mass of files; I'll keep an eye-out for Mr. Varley and 25-ohms.

[Edit to add]
I did find these pieces on Mike's web site: http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/That-25-Ohm-Rule-Revisited~20050505.php as well as http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/What-a-Great-Week-of-Discovery~20050503.php

Jim

 

[Rockyd]

Brian John,


It's sad, but seems like 75% of the industry is looking to get a paycheck out of the industry, and not put anything back in. Just 10 minutes a day in a codebook will leave you miles ahead of many, who, are electricians. Nice part about the forum is, at times, the code book on steroids (don't worry, it's legal, and a good thing)

 

[brian john]

I was thinking more about my post and there is an additional road block to advancing the future of our profession, I know several electricians that are very knowledgable, but will not part with their skills.

They refuse to train others for a variety of reasons none of them good. I think most of their fears come from a lack of self confidence, they are afraid if they teach someone that person might take their job.

I've always hoped if I taught someone they would take my job, freeing me up to do something else, like napping.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Brian,

I was thinking more about my post and there is an additional road block to advancing the future of our profession, I know several electricians that are very knowledgable, but will not part with their skills.

I have seen that. Way back when I was a first year apprentice, I was part of a crew that installed some 3 conductor, 750kcmil, oil filled, lead sheathed, 15kV cable. When it came time for the terminations, they had a guy would wouldn't even let you look at what he was doing, let alone teach anyone.
Don

 

[llverbeek]

It was an outstanding class... lots of information - could have been 2 days easily...

I have to agree with Brian... I'd rather train someone to do my job rather than be threatened by talented up and comers... but maybe that's just me..

Thanks to Mike for an enriching experience.. (and thanks to the forum members here.. I've learned alot)

 

[JohnJ0906]

I was thinking more about my post and there is an additional road block to advancing the future of our profession, I know several electricians that are very knowledgable, but will not part with their skills.

They refuse to train others for a variety of reasons none of them good. I think most of their fears come from a lack of self confidence, they are afraid if they teach someone that person might take their job.

I firmly beleive I have a responcablity to train others. I have this arguement with coworkers all the time. As a matter of fact, the guy working with methurs and fri was on his own for a little while, and my foreman decided to put him with me for some "polishing". IMO, he needed some. I was actually looking forward to it, I'm used to green helpers. However, he pitched a fit because he didn't want to be a helper again, and I couldn't reassure him it wouldn't be electrician/helper, it would be elctrician/electrician. IMHO,grin: ) there isn't anyone better at my company to put the polish on a prospective mechanic, but if someone won't work with me.... Oh well.
(I swear, I'm not all that hard to get along with!)

 

[steveng]

is this class available online?