mike holt flexable cords newsletter august 7 2015

[mjmike]

I recently read the above noted newsletter and it has me confused. Per 400.8.(6), you can't put a flexable cord in raceway but per 400.14, you can put them in raceway above grade. When designing pump stations and related projects, we would call for junction boxes to be placed outside the wet well and convert the pump cords and float cords over to hard wire that we can put in a duct bank back to the pump control panel. It was always our interpretation that the pump cords, float cords, and transducer cords were considered flexible cords and could not be installed in below grade raceway. Even if you search the forum, that appears to be the consensus.

However, after reading the newsletter, I am questing if these are indeed a flexible cords. Here are several questions:

1. Are the submersible pump cables, transducer cables, and float cables actually "power supply cords" or a "cord sets" constructed per UL817?
2. Where does article 400 state that the NEC is not applicable if the cords are UL 817?
3. So if the noted cables are built per UL 817, does it need to state it on the cable someplace?
4. If the cords are indeed UL817, can they be put in a duct bank?

Thoughts?

 

[petersonra]

I recently read the above noted newsletter and it has me confused. Per 400.8.(6), you can't put a flexable cord in raceway but per 400.14, you can put them in raceway above grade. When designing pump stations and related projects, we would call for junction boxes to be placed outside the wet well and convert the pump cords and float cords over to hard wire that we can put in a duct bank back to the pump control panel. It was always our interpretation that the pump cords, float cords, and transducer cords were considered flexible cords and could not be installed in below grade raceway. Even if you search the forum, that appears to be the consensus.

However, after reading the newsletter, I am questing if these are indeed a flexible cords. Here are several questions:

1. Are the submersible pump cables, transducer cables, and float cables actually "power supply cords" or a "cord sets" constructed per UL817?
2. Where does article 400 state that the NEC is not applicable if the cords are UL 817?
3. So if the noted cables are built per UL 817, does it need to state it on the cable someplace?
4. If the cords are indeed UL817, can they be put in a duct bank?

Thoughts?

IMO, 400.4 tells you the types of cord subject to the NEC and that are allowed to be used in NEC compliant installations. If it comes as part of a piece of equipment it is not subject to the NEC, especially if it is not one of the cord types listed in 400.4.

However, there are people who for whatever reason hate cords and will try to tell you all cords are covered by article 400.

400.8(6) specifically allows for exceptions such as are found in 400.14.

 

[ron]

This is a controversial topic and if I recall, a few only came to the current conclusion (newsletter) recently, and many still consider cords to be cords and be covered by 400.

 

[iwire]

However, there are people who for whatever reason hate cords and will try to tell you all cords are covered by article 400.

Like the fire departments and electrical inspectors in my area.

I have to put their opinion above Mike Holt's as they can fail and will fail the job.

This is a controversial topic and if I recall, a few only came to the current conclusion (newsletter) recently, and many still consider cords to be cords and be covered by 400.

I agree with that.

 

[bob]

Iwire, have you gone Hollywood on us? I do not recognize the photo.

 

[mjmike]

If it comes as part of a piece of equipment it is not subject to the NEC, especially if it is not one of the cord types listed in 400.4.

However, there are people who for whatever reason hate cords and will try to tell you all cords are covered by article 400.

The cords attached to submersible pumps are typically those listed under 400; some form of SO cord. They are factory attached though.

400.8(6) specifically allows for exceptions such as are found in 400.14.

Correct, but only above grade. Not below grade in a duct bank.

 

[petersonra]

Like the fire departments and electrical inspectors in my area.

perhaps instead of allowing them to continue to fail compliant installations an attempt to educate them is in order.

this is not a lot different than inspectors that fail other compliant installations for no good reasons.