Minimalist hotel design

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hmspe

hmspe

Senior Member
Location
Temple, TX
Occupation
PE
I stayed in a new Holiday Inn Express last night. Nice suite, but minimalist design. The main space was about 30' x 16', with the bath carved out in the middle of the long wall. In that space there was a duplex receptacle for the microwave and coffeemaker, and an adjacent high mounted receptacle that looked like it was for a full size refrigerator. I assume that there was a receptacle in the millwork for the existing mini-fridge. The only other receptacles in the space are at the desk (which is cord connected and has built-in lights and a duplex) and a nigh-mount behind a TV. The bedroom is about 12' x 14' and has a hidden connection for the headboard (which has built-in lights and a duplex on each side) and a high-mount behind the TV.

In every hotel I've designed we have followed "set the receptacle quantity based on within 6' of a baseboard interruption and no more than 12' apart, but you may adjust location to fit the furniture layout". This hotel suite seems to fall about 2/3 short on receptacle quantity. Not sure if it just a very poor design (no receptacle near the couch for the laptop power supply), if this is intentional design, or if there was something unusual for plan review and inspection. Have I missed a Code change that would allow so few receptacles? I don't think this would ever be approved where I practice.
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Location
Lockport, IL
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Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
You were in a "guest room" or "guest suite." The relevant code article is 210.60, and it hasn't changed in a while. Is says that the receptacles described in 210.52(A) and (D) are required. Those include the wall spaces, any countertops, and bathrooms.
 
hmspe

hmspe

Senior Member
Location
Temple, TX
Occupation
PE
It looks like the adopted code is the "2006 NEC", although the published amendments say that the amendments modify the 2002 NEC.

Assuming the 2005 NEC is in effect there should be more receptacles and there should be light switches at the entries to rooms. I'm sure there is an interesting story behind how the building got a CofO.
 
steve66

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
I also don't see many hotels that comply with the energy codes, even when it is obvious that they are new.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
steve66 said:
I also don't see many hotels that comply with the energy codes, even when it is obvious that they are new.
Click to expand...
.
generally speaking, they do in california.

i've currently got two jobs i'm doing the T24 compliance certs on,
both Marriott's in so calif. both remodels, and they are T24:2014 ok.

some differences.... one, you have a "card reader" designed and
listed for the purpose, that you are supposed to insert your room
card into, to power up lights and outlets.

but the reader has a switch that has no logic other than a microswitch
that is opened when anything, business card, or whatever, is shoved in
the slot.

as a result, every slot has a biz card in it, and everything is left on.

this is an approved device in an approved set of plans. go figure.
all i'm certifying is that it's installed and functional.

the other mariott has an occupancy sensor to heat up the plugs.
both have occupancy sensors in the bathrooms. manual on ones,
so they don't give false on's and annoy people trying to sleep.
you have to manually turn them on.

there's enough outlets in both that a reasonable person can plug
in the plethora of crap people carry with them when traveling.
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
I'm in a hotel room right now in Leesburg, FL (3 miles from Mike Holt's office).
There are 3 duplex receptacles in the whole room.
Opened the door last night when I checked in, toggled the switch at the door, and no lights came on.
Walked by braille to the bathroom to get the first interior light to come on.
One RPT under the desk to plug all my gadgets into.
Had to run water in bathroom for 5 minutes for it to start getting warm, then it got so hot I had to dilute the hot with cold to keep from getting burned.
NEC code compliant? Probably not.
Energy code compliant? Probably not.

All of that means nothing to me as a person who needs a comfortable, safe place to spend a night.
There is a fire-rated stairwell at each end of the floor.
The bldg has fire sprinklers, pull stations, etc.
All appears well maintained (OS&Y outside looks like it was serviced yesterday).
This chair I'm sitting in will make a fine breaking device if I need to get through the window in an emergency.

Did it all meet code when it was built? Maybe. Maybe not. It could be 20 years old and it could be 50 years old.

It's a nice room that serves its purpose.
It's a safe place.
The wi-fi works.
There's a Breaking Bad marathon on A&E.
And they have 24/7 coffee & cookies in the lobby; that's all I need.
 
tw1156

tw1156

Senior Member
Location
Texas
Depending on how the code was interpreted, the microwave, refrigerator, and coffee maker receptacles may be counted towards the receptacle count if they are not "permanent provisions for cooking". I observed a thread from a while back that was debating this and I believe it came down to AHJ interpretation. From what you described, it sounds like they meet the requirements of the code. I count 8 receptacles you describe below, unless I misread. Without actually seeing the layout, this may be enough receptacles. We always try to provide at least one dedicated receptacle out along an open wall for housekeeping and ironing; two are required to be readily accessible, but this is easily achieved through furniture/etc. Good post and thanks for sharing.
 
hmspe

hmspe

Senior Member
Location
Temple, TX
Occupation
PE
Based on stepping off distances there should be at least 16 receptacles. There are seven that I can find, including the ones for the coffeemaker/microwave and refrigerators. There is no lighting outlet switch at the door into the bedroom. I don't see how this can be OK by interpretation of the NEC. It could be that they got a waiver. I have no way to know.

What really surprises me is that the franchise company allowed it. It's dark because of the lack of lighting. It's inconvenient because of the lack of wall switched lights. There's no receptacle by the couch or the table for a laptop charger. Great staff and the place is nice otherwise, but the inconveniences are enough that Holiday Inn Express will not be on my acceptable list in the future.
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
hmspe said:
Based on stepping off distances there should be at least 16 receptacles. There are seven that I can find, including the ones for the coffeemaker/microwave and refrigerators. There is no lighting outlet switch at the door into the bedroom. I don't see how this can be OK by interpretation of the NEC. It could be that they got a waiver. I have no way to know.

What really surprises me is that the franchise company allowed it. It's dark because of the lack of lighting. It's inconvenient because of the lack of wall switched lights. There's no receptacle by the couch or the table for a laptop charger. Great staff and the place is nice otherwise, but the inconveniences are enough that Holiday Inn Express will not be on my acceptable list in the future.
Click to expand...

How old is the building?

I agree franchise should be on them to make it work but it could have been built under the 1950 NEC.
 
hmspe

hmspe

Senior Member
Location
Temple, TX
Occupation
PE
mgookin said:
How old is the building?
Click to expand...

New, open about 6 months. Nothing was on the lot when we were here about two years ago. The code was the "2006 NEC" according to what the ordinance the parish lists on their web site. The same ordinance has amendments which are stated as amending the 2002 NEC, but none would apply here.
 
J

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
hmspe said:
Based on stepping off distances there should be at least 16 receptacles. There are seven that I can find, including the ones for the coffeemaker/microwave and refrigerators. There is no lighting outlet switch at the door into the bedroom. I don't see how this can be OK by interpretation of the NEC. It could be that they got a waiver. I have no way to know.

What really surprises me is that the franchise company allowed it. It's dark because of the lack of lighting. It's inconvenient because of the lack of wall switched lights. There's no receptacle by the couch or the table for a laptop charger. Great staff and the place is nice otherwise, but the inconveniences are enough that Holiday Inn Express will not be on my acceptable list in the future.
Click to expand...

Havent done any hotels in about 7 years, but barring the bathroom, PTAC, desk, bed, TV, and microwave/fridge, I dont see this changing. Read hotel reviews, there are tons of complaints about lack of receptacles for chargers.

Brands often have certain specs, like wall mounted thermostats for PTACs, but older properties do not always comply.
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
If you ever stay in a residence style unit, the panel is almost always inside the room. It's all 20 amp circuits to do a handful of outlets.
 
brantmacga

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
I stayed in a Hilton this week and it had one recep by the bed for a lamp (which had non working receps in the base of it), one recep for the TV, one for the fridge/coffee, and one for the desk.

There was another at the bathroom sink.

We had five devices that needed to charge, and had to let them take turns.
I'm going to buy a USB charging hub to start traveling with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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