Minimum tenant feeds

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bobbymari

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los angeles ca
I have conflicting opinions from 2 inspectors regarding minimum tenant feeds in a multi family dwelling. We are in the bid phase of a large apt building. One inspector is saying the minimum feed to each unit is 60 amps. I disagree, and I realize he is reciting art 230.79(d) but this is the minimum SERVICE requirement. Our service will be 600 amps well above the minimum of 60 for service. Once it hits our disconnect in the multimeter section it is no longer the service. Is there an actual section for minimum feed for the tenant breakers. I normally use 60's on smaller bldg's but these are many bachelor units with nothing and I mean nothing in them. Shouldn't I be able to size tenant feeds according to whatever the load calcs to?
 
bobbymari said:
I have conflicting opinions from 2 inspectors regarding minimum tenant feeds in a multi family dwelling. We are in the bid phase of a large apt building. One inspector is saying the minimum feed to each unit is 60 amps. I disagree, and I realize he is reciting art 230.79(d) but this is the minimum SERVICE requirement. Our service will be 600 amps well above the minimum of 60 for service. Once it hits our disconnect in the multimeter section it is no longer the service. Is there an actual section for minimum feed for the tenant breakers. I normally use 60's on smaller bldg's but these are many bachelor units with nothing and I mean nothing in them. Shouldn't I be able to size tenant feeds according to whatever the load calcs to?
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Then would you believe 225.39(D)?
 
bobbymari said:
isnt this in the outside feeder section as in building feeding another building? dont have my book with me. Will look into this when I get back home thanks.
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That is the title of Article 225, but I do not think that its requirements are to be interpreted that narrowly. Otherwise why would this section appear there too?
225.35 Access to Occupants. In a multiple-occupancy building, each occupant shall have access to the occupant?s supply disconnecting means.
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(Note "supply" disconnecting means, not "service" disconnecting means, BTW.)
If the feeders were entirely within one building would that requirement not apply? I do not think that was the intent.
 
Ok I see now what you guys are saying. This section does specify feeders and does include single family dwelings in (c) and all others in (d). Thanks for input, thats why I like to double check myself before bigger bids when I "know" I'm right.. Not.....
 
GoldDigger said:
That is the title of Article 225, but I do not think that its requirements are to be interpreted that narrowly. Otherwise why would this section appear there too?

(Note "supply" disconnecting means, not "service" disconnecting means, BTW.)
If the feeders were entirely within one building would that requirement not apply? I do not think that was the intent.
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You could still have a multi-occupant building supplied by a feeder.

Nothing in 225 applies if the feeder supplies loads in the same building.

Nothing in 215 specifies minimum feeder size to a dwelling unit, or any other occupancy for that matter (that I am aware of).
 
kwired said:
You could still have a multi-occupant building supplied by a feeder.

Nothing in 225 applies if the feeder supplies loads in the same building.

Nothing in 215 specifies minimum feeder size to a dwelling unit, or any other occupancy for that matter (that I am aware of).
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Ok now wheels are turning once again. To paraphrase this article does start with the header covers requirements for outside brnch circuits and feeders run on or between buildings. In re reading that I dont see that as being the same as tenant feeds from a multi meter section. I need a firm grasp on this as there is a big difference in wire costs between the 2 for this application
 
bobbymari said:
Ok now wheels are turning once again. To paraphrase this article does start with the header covers requirements for outside brnch circuits and feeders run on or between buildings. In re reading that I dont see that as being the same as tenant feeds from a multi meter section. I need a firm grasp on this as there is a big difference in wire costs between the 2 for this application
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There's no restriction after the service disconnect, period, as you have surmised.

How is it that one inspector's opinion is even involved at bid stage? Have the plans not even been through plan review and approved for construction? Did they actually have the plans? Without, he is likely thinking each apartment has a separate service. Separately metered and billed is not the same as separate services.
 
Smart $ said:
There's no restriction after the service disconnect, period, as you have surmised.

How is it that one inspector's opinion is even involved at bid stage? Have the plans not even been through plan review and approved for construction? Did they actually have the plans? Without, he is likely thinking each apartment has a separate service. Separately metered and billed is not the same as separate services.
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Had 2 inspections yesterday, one was a 6 gang meter section on which we did use 60's to each unit and he made the comment Im glad you went with the minimum 60's. No code referance, and I asked if he was thinking of the service section ,he replied feeders also require 60's. Second inspection I had I picked other inspectors brain and said I was correct that only the services require the minimum 60 amp.
 
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