I am planning on taking the Minnesota Master's exam August 2009. I have taken the exam twice now. I missed by 12 the first time, I missed by 4 the second time. Having taken it twice, I know and remember a lot about the exam and would like to discuss exam preperation. Anything would help, what tools you find are the best. So far, Holt's NEC Exam Prep Guide, his DVD library with the 2 NEC books seem to be popular. Or even if someone wants to discuss the exam itself. They do not give you any help if you do not pass, only how to re-apply. So I have NO IDEA what I need help in.
Minnesota MN Masters Exam Test
- Thread starter boku0003
- Start date
- Status
jscottelwood
Member
- Location
- Oklahoma
Oklahoma Here...
Oklahoma Here...
I once lived in Minnesota (eons ago) but did not practice electrical at that time. I now live in Oklahoma and have an Unlimited Electrical Journeyman's License and have the IAEI Electrical General and 1 & 2 Family Dwellings Inspector's Cards. I bought every book and video I could find (NFPA, Mike Holt, Tom Henry, etc.) and studied a couple of hours every night. I also took every practice exam I could lay my hands on. I would answer the questions and grade myself. Then I would go to the NEC book and highlight or underline the answers. After you do this for a month you will know the NEC by chapter and verse. I do not know if you are needing electrical knowledge only or business law and bonding too. I am a firm believer that you can never know too much. (besides, my company pays for all this stuff. All I have to do is give up some of my time).
Oklahoma Here...
I once lived in Minnesota (eons ago) but did not practice electrical at that time. I now live in Oklahoma and have an Unlimited Electrical Journeyman's License and have the IAEI Electrical General and 1 & 2 Family Dwellings Inspector's Cards. I bought every book and video I could find (NFPA, Mike Holt, Tom Henry, etc.) and studied a couple of hours every night. I also took every practice exam I could lay my hands on. I would answer the questions and grade myself. Then I would go to the NEC book and highlight or underline the answers. After you do this for a month you will know the NEC by chapter and verse. I do not know if you are needing electrical knowledge only or business law and bonding too. I am a firm believer that you can never know too much. (besides, my company pays for all this stuff. All I have to do is give up some of my time).
Minnesota MN Masters Exam Test
Before the first test, I went through "Electrician's Exam Study Guide" by Brian Coffin and did every single problem in the book. I found that did not really help a whole lot with calculation problems, but it did help me get good at finding my way through the NEC. For the second run, I took the MEA course. That helped with calculations and schematic diagrams. I also went through most of Holt's Exam Prep guide. Now I am interested in his NEC walkthrough volume 1 and 2. Also the NEC library (DVD series), however that is a little spendier (over $500). So I might just stick with the 2 books for $110.
FYI: I called the exam place and the lady I talked to said she felt bad that a lot of guys call in after having taken it (one took it 4 times) and said the exam is tricky. I can't say I am surprised as I felt like I did really well. I felt comfortable with the vast majority of the test, but there must have been a lot of gotcha's in there which I unfortunately will never know since they won't give me any feedback on what kind of problems I got wrong.
Before the first test, I went through "Electrician's Exam Study Guide" by Brian Coffin and did every single problem in the book. I found that did not really help a whole lot with calculation problems, but it did help me get good at finding my way through the NEC. For the second run, I took the MEA course. That helped with calculations and schematic diagrams. I also went through most of Holt's Exam Prep guide. Now I am interested in his NEC walkthrough volume 1 and 2. Also the NEC library (DVD series), however that is a little spendier (over $500). So I might just stick with the 2 books for $110.
FYI: I called the exam place and the lady I talked to said she felt bad that a lot of guys call in after having taken it (one took it 4 times) and said the exam is tricky. I can't say I am surprised as I felt like I did really well. I felt comfortable with the vast majority of the test, but there must have been a lot of gotcha's in there which I unfortunately will never know since they won't give me any feedback on what kind of problems I got wrong.
A fellow MN Electrician
A fellow MN Electrician
I took the "new" test March of '07. It is full of trickery :roll:
I see you went to the MEA course. I thought that helped me the most. I think you can re-attend for a reduced cost or maybe even free if you do not pass.
Read the questions very carefully. There are a lot of things in the NEC that are almost word for word duplications but pertain to different situations. Also don?t forget your Arc Flash calculations and some other bits that can?t be found in the book. I was surprised how many questions could not be answered by the NEC but needed memorization of various formulas.
I studied every other night, three hours, for 6 months and took weekends off. If you are "attached" it takes a good deal of understanding and support from your attachments :grin:.
Good luck, you?ll make it!
A fellow MN Electrician
I took the "new" test March of '07. It is full of trickery :roll:
I see you went to the MEA course. I thought that helped me the most. I think you can re-attend for a reduced cost or maybe even free if you do not pass.
Read the questions very carefully. There are a lot of things in the NEC that are almost word for word duplications but pertain to different situations. Also don?t forget your Arc Flash calculations and some other bits that can?t be found in the book. I was surprised how many questions could not be answered by the NEC but needed memorization of various formulas.
I studied every other night, three hours, for 6 months and took weekends off. If you are "attached" it takes a good deal of understanding and support from your attachments :grin:.
Good luck, you?ll make it!
Minnesota MN Masters Exam Test
I did take the MEA class twice. After not passing the exam in July 08, I took the course in Aug08. I took it again in Jan 09 a week and a half before the exam. It is pretty intense so I did feel that I learned both times. I don't plan on taking it a third time. They were both by 2 different guys. The second time was with the EE who wrote the book.
I did not have any problems with calculation type problems. At least I don't think I did (don't know what questions I got wrong). The MEA course really helped with those.
I do not recall any arch flash questions or calculations.
I read the questions 2 or 3 times each; on calculations, I usually did the math twice on those cheap calculators they give you (on a TI89 I can at least see what I entered, with these, if I entered wrong I won't know it). And before answering, I read the question one more time to make sure I understood it correctly.
So any specific advice or calculations would help. Or what products helped you the most. All study material is expensive and a lot of it can waste a lot of your time (I felt the book I used for the first exam wasn't all that helpful and thus was a bit of a waste of 5 months of my study time).
I did take the MEA class twice. After not passing the exam in July 08, I took the course in Aug08. I took it again in Jan 09 a week and a half before the exam. It is pretty intense so I did feel that I learned both times. I don't plan on taking it a third time. They were both by 2 different guys. The second time was with the EE who wrote the book.
I did not have any problems with calculation type problems. At least I don't think I did (don't know what questions I got wrong). The MEA course really helped with those.
I do not recall any arch flash questions or calculations.
I read the questions 2 or 3 times each; on calculations, I usually did the math twice on those cheap calculators they give you (on a TI89 I can at least see what I entered, with these, if I entered wrong I won't know it). And before answering, I read the question one more time to make sure I understood it correctly.
So any specific advice or calculations would help. Or what products helped you the most. All study material is expensive and a lot of it can waste a lot of your time (I felt the book I used for the first exam wasn't all that helpful and thus was a bit of a waste of 5 months of my study time).
Keep in mind here you’re asking me to remember something from two years ago. I have a hard time remembering where I left my tools at the end of the day…:-?
My test had two Arc Flash questions they both dealt with available fault current. Both could have been easily answered if I had remembered this simple formula (which I of course did not):
Available Fault Current (AFC) = I / %Z
I = current
Z = impedance rating of transformer
There was also at least one Voltage Drop question. Here are a couple of good formulas to commit to memory. Some people substitute the “L” in the formula for a “D” I found the KIL (pronounce Kill) easier to remember it may not be politically correct but it works for me. Also keep in mind the fact that VD is not enforceable by code and the 3% vs. 5% recommendations.
Branch Ckt = 3%
Feeder = 5%
VD = 2KIL/CM (single phase)
VD = 1.73KIL/CM
K is a constant it has to do with the conductive/resistive property of the material doing the conducting. K is 12.9 for copper and 21.2 for aluminum
I = current
L = length of conductors one way
CM = Circular Mills of the conductor (found Chapter 9 table 8)
I also remember a resistor color code question which surprised me – I don’t remember if that was on my Journeyman’s or Masters test but there is an easy to remember saying for that one. If you want it, I will PM it to you, but I will warn you it is very much not politically correct. :wink:
Remember to use the examples in Annex D if you forget how to do service calculations. I hope at least something I posted here will be useful to you. If not I just wasted half my lunch period.:grin:
My test had two Arc Flash questions they both dealt with available fault current. Both could have been easily answered if I had remembered this simple formula (which I of course did not):
Available Fault Current (AFC) = I / %Z
I = current
Z = impedance rating of transformer
There was also at least one Voltage Drop question. Here are a couple of good formulas to commit to memory. Some people substitute the “L” in the formula for a “D” I found the KIL (pronounce Kill) easier to remember it may not be politically correct but it works for me. Also keep in mind the fact that VD is not enforceable by code and the 3% vs. 5% recommendations.
Branch Ckt = 3%
Feeder = 5%
VD = 2KIL/CM (single phase)
VD = 1.73KIL/CM
K is a constant it has to do with the conductive/resistive property of the material doing the conducting. K is 12.9 for copper and 21.2 for aluminum
I = current
L = length of conductors one way
CM = Circular Mills of the conductor (found Chapter 9 table 8)
I also remember a resistor color code question which surprised me – I don’t remember if that was on my Journeyman’s or Masters test but there is an easy to remember saying for that one. If you want it, I will PM it to you, but I will warn you it is very much not politically correct. :wink:
Remember to use the examples in Annex D if you forget how to do service calculations. I hope at least something I posted here will be useful to you. If not I just wasted half my lunch period.:grin:
Thanks for the reply.
I do remember fault current questions. Basically calculate full load current of a transformer and then divide by the impedence. Those are fairly simple. I do not remember any Arc Flash fault current, nor have I ever heard of it. Do you have an example calculation.
Voltage drop questions are very easy too. 2RIL/1000 or 2KIL/CM. I understand the concept (basically is just V=IR, the trick is finding R...)and they are pretty much just plug and chug. Just make sure you don't mess up and use the wrong current, make sure you plug in properly...
There definitely were no resistor color code questions. I have never bothered to memorize them as the color is hard to distinguish anyway, I just use a fluke and check anway.
I am also fairly confident with my box volume calculations, size of raceway/# conductors in a raceway, range and dryer calculations... Here is one that I did struggle with
2-story office building, 80x125 feet, supplied by 120/208V, including minimum demand for receptacles and continuous light, what minimum feeder is required? I calculated 20k ft^2, so at 1VA/ft^2 for receptacle, apply the demand factor (100% up to 10kva, 50% after), and 3.5 VA / ft^2 for lighting plus 1.25% for continuous. I could not get an answer that was in the answer selection. I did include sqrt3, I tried excluding it, I tried continuous and non continuous for the light and receptacle load, NONE of these combinations gave an answer even close to one of the answers.
I do remember fault current questions. Basically calculate full load current of a transformer and then divide by the impedence. Those are fairly simple. I do not remember any Arc Flash fault current, nor have I ever heard of it. Do you have an example calculation.
Voltage drop questions are very easy too. 2RIL/1000 or 2KIL/CM. I understand the concept (basically is just V=IR, the trick is finding R...)and they are pretty much just plug and chug. Just make sure you don't mess up and use the wrong current, make sure you plug in properly...
There definitely were no resistor color code questions. I have never bothered to memorize them as the color is hard to distinguish anyway, I just use a fluke and check anway.
I am also fairly confident with my box volume calculations, size of raceway/# conductors in a raceway, range and dryer calculations... Here is one that I did struggle with
2-story office building, 80x125 feet, supplied by 120/208V, including minimum demand for receptacles and continuous light, what minimum feeder is required? I calculated 20k ft^2, so at 1VA/ft^2 for receptacle, apply the demand factor (100% up to 10kva, 50% after), and 3.5 VA / ft^2 for lighting plus 1.25% for continuous. I could not get an answer that was in the answer selection. I did include sqrt3, I tried excluding it, I tried continuous and non continuous for the light and receptacle load, NONE of these combinations gave an answer even close to one of the answers.
Minnesota MN Masters Exam Test
All,
To reiterate, here is what I am looking for:
1. Discussions and possibly hookup via email with anyone planning on taking the MN Master exam. Especially anyone who has already taken it.
2. What materials in particular have you found useful. I already have Holt's "NEC Exam Preperation Textbook". I am considering "Understanding the NEC" volume 1 and 2. I would like the DVD's (NEC Detailed Library) that go with them, but they are a little spendy ($569), but if enough people can say they helped them pass, I might reconsider.
3. Specific help on certain questions (calculations, NEC topics, etc.) you think are relevant, or ones that I provide. I just provided one in my previous post. I have a few others that I'll post later. My notes are at home.
Thanks.
All,
To reiterate, here is what I am looking for:
1. Discussions and possibly hookup via email with anyone planning on taking the MN Master exam. Especially anyone who has already taken it.
2. What materials in particular have you found useful. I already have Holt's "NEC Exam Preperation Textbook". I am considering "Understanding the NEC" volume 1 and 2. I would like the DVD's (NEC Detailed Library) that go with them, but they are a little spendy ($569), but if enough people can say they helped them pass, I might reconsider.
3. Specific help on certain questions (calculations, NEC topics, etc.) you think are relevant, or ones that I provide. I just provided one in my previous post. I have a few others that I'll post later. My notes are at home.
Thanks.
Score! 25% off everything
Score! 25% off everything
I just noticed that Mike is offering 25% off on all his materials. So now I am really considering purchasing the 2 volume NEC Library DVD collection. That brings it from $569 down to $427. I already have his exam prep book. So I think this collection is just what is needed for me to pass the master exam. Has anyone else used this? Did they find it helpful? Was there something else that was more effective?
Thanks!
Score! 25% off everything
I just noticed that Mike is offering 25% off on all his materials. So now I am really considering purchasing the 2 volume NEC Library DVD collection. That brings it from $569 down to $427. I already have his exam prep book. So I think this collection is just what is needed for me to pass the master exam. Has anyone else used this? Did they find it helpful? Was there something else that was more effective?
Thanks!
mcjacobsend
Member
- Location
- North Branch
Mn Class A Journeyman Test
Mn Class A Journeyman Test
I would like to take my test in March or April of 2009 and I'm afraid. I took the MEA weekend crash course and felt I wasn't ready for the test. I am looking for a study buddie in the North Metro area, or some good test study guide. If you can offer advice or looking for someone to study with call me (651) 583-3507 Todd
Mn Class A Journeyman Test
I would like to take my test in March or April of 2009 and I'm afraid. I took the MEA weekend crash course and felt I wasn't ready for the test. I am looking for a study buddie in the North Metro area, or some good test study guide. If you can offer advice or looking for someone to study with call me (651) 583-3507 Todd
Minnesota MN Masters Exam Test
Sounds great! Here is my email address. Shoot me an email and we can work together.
boku0003@umn.edu
Sounds great! Here is my email address. Shoot me an email and we can work together.
boku0003@umn.edu
MN Masters Exam
MN Masters Exam
2-story office building, 80x125 feet, supplied by 120/208V, including minimum demand for receptacles and continuous light, what minimum feeder is required? I calculated 20k ft^2, so at 1VA/ft^2 for receptacle, apply the demand factor (100% up to 10kva, 50% after), and 3.5 VA / ft^2 for lighting plus 1.25% for continuous. I could not get an answer that was in the answer selection. I did include sqrt3, I tried excluding it, I tried continuous and non continuous for the light and receptacle load, NONE of these combinations gave an answer even close to one of the answers.
MN Masters Exam
2-story office building, 80x125 feet, supplied by 120/208V, including minimum demand for receptacles and continuous light, what minimum feeder is required? I calculated 20k ft^2, so at 1VA/ft^2 for receptacle, apply the demand factor (100% up to 10kva, 50% after), and 3.5 VA / ft^2 for lighting plus 1.25% for continuous. I could not get an answer that was in the answer selection. I did include sqrt3, I tried excluding it, I tried continuous and non continuous for the light and receptacle load, NONE of these combinations gave an answer even close to one of the answers.
Question
Question
2-story office building, 80x125 feet, supplied by 120/208V, including minimum demand for receptacles and continuous light, what minimum feeder is required? I calculated 20k ft^2, so at 1VA/ft^2 for receptacle, apply the demand factor (100% up to 10kva, 50% after), and 3.5 VA / ft^2 for lighting plus 1.25% for continuous. I could not get an answer that was in the answer selection. I did include sqrt3, I tried excluding it, I tried continuous and non continuous for the light and receptacle load, NONE of these combinations gave an answer even close to one of the answers.
Question
2-story office building, 80x125 feet, supplied by 120/208V, including minimum demand for receptacles and continuous light, what minimum feeder is required? I calculated 20k ft^2, so at 1VA/ft^2 for receptacle, apply the demand factor (100% up to 10kva, 50% after), and 3.5 VA / ft^2 for lighting plus 1.25% for continuous. I could not get an answer that was in the answer selection. I did include sqrt3, I tried excluding it, I tried continuous and non continuous for the light and receptacle load, NONE of these combinations gave an answer even close to one of the answers.
westernexplorer
Senior Member
What about your sign circuit...? What about HVAC loads....? I have yet to see a commercial office building without a mechical system......
Your missing something here....
Jim Shorts
Member
- Location
- Central Florida
You cannot derate the receptacle load unless they are calculated at 180 va each. When you calculate them at 1 va per square foot that is the end of the calculation. With the information given, I would say the answer is 107.5 kva or 298 amps. The sign circuit would not have to be added, since this calculation is for a feeder and not the service. If we knew that this feeder supplied the sign circuit, then you would have to add that.
Last edited:
kevin
Member
- Location
- Post Falls, ID
The office building is 2 x 80 x 125 = 20,000 sq ft. There are only three electrical loads identifiable: lighting, sign, and receptacle. Lighting and sign are continuous loads.
1. LIGHTING [T220.12] 20,000 x 3.5 x 1.25 = 87,500 va
2. SIGN [600.5(A); 220.14(F)] 1200 x 1.25 = 1,500 va
3. RECEPTACLE 220.14(K)(2) 20,000 x 1.0 = 20,000 va
TOTAL = 109,000 va
MINIMUM FEEDER SIZE = 109,000/360 = 303 AMPS
Note that the receptacle load is not subject to the demand factors in Table 220.44, since it was not calculated in accordance with 220.14(H) or 220.14(I) as required by 220.44. It was calculated, rather, in accordance with 220.14(K)(2).
Jim Shorts
Member
- Location
- Central Florida
Sign circuit is not required in every feeder. Only required for the building. No way to tell by the question if this feeder is supplying the sign circuit.
kevin
Member
- Location
- Post Falls, ID
A close reading of 600.5(A) indicates to me that a "sign..." outlet and branch circuit is required for "each commercial building and each commercial occupancy accessible to pedestrians...". Given that requirement, 220.14(F) mandates calculating the branch circuit at 1200 va. We are drifting away from the subject of the original post, but I'm curious if one of the answers given to the exam question being considered was between 298 and 303 amps.
- Status