Mistakes Within the Company

[360Youth]

I was wondering you guys handle fixing mistakes within the company. Do you fix on your own time or some sort of equivalent? Or is it chalked up as project loss. For example, we did a 400a panel change out last Friday and I got a call that night that the upstairs ac was not working. The customer said there was no need to come right then but I assured him I would be out first thing Sat morning. Upon investigation, the air handler circuit was mistakenly reinstalled as 240v instead of 120v, as it should have. I was not the one to do so but it was my project and my license so ultimately was my responsibility (I was working on the other panel). I spent 2 hours tracing out the problem and thankfully was No more than blown ansformer. The part was replaced and everything worked fine. I chose not to charge for my time so as not to add znymore loss to the job. How do you handle such situations. I realize this is not always possible nor best approach, but if I can prevent company loss, especially when my actions are a factor. There have been times when a project went longer than I estimated and it affects profit I will not charge my extra time to wrap it up. Once again, not every time, but when I am able, Or feel it is unduely my fault. This has the makings of a very opinionated thread, but here we go...what say you.

 

[480sparky]

If I screw it up, I pay for it. Simple as that.

Chit happens.

Edit to add: Hey! A poll and everything!

 

[mdshunk]

The buck stops with the owner. He has to make all mistakes right by the customer in the end. Putting an employee in a position where he needs to fix a mistake on his own dime or own time is flatly illegal. He still needs to be paid for the time involved, if it was him that remediated the situation. Whether or not you choose to keep him as an employee after that is another matter all together.

 

[mdshunk]

Why didn't you just explain to the customer that their air conditioning transformer failed, and it was just a coincidence that it happened right after your service upgrade? :grin:

I say that tongue-in-cheek, but I think every guy knows people who would do to just that.

 

[360Youth]

The buck stops with the owner. He has to make all mistakes right by the customer in the end. Putting an employee in a position where he needs to fix a mistake on his own dime or own time is flatly illegal. He still needs to be paid for the time involved, if it was him that remediated the situation. Whether or not you choose to keep him as an employee after that is another matter all together.

I am not talking about an owner or supervisor decision. If I mess up, or somebody I am responsible for messes up, and I can fix it without affecting project and/or company profit, many times I do so. Most of the time my boss does not even know it. I do not see it as any different than coming in early to prep for a job. But then again, that is probably a sore subject, too. :grin: Let's stick to this one for now.

 

[brantmacga]

Being the owner, all mistakes are fixed at my cost. When I was an employee, I corrected some mistakes of other employees on my own time (with company materials) and reported it. But I was a salary employee and averaged 30-32 hrs a week so it didn't bother me (wow, i left a pretty sweet deal; wonder if they're hiring? ). I was never forced to work over 40hrs. I seem to remember if I ever told the boss beforehand that I was going to fix something after hours, he'd usually stop me and say do it the next morning. He may have felt there could be some liability issues with me doing that.

 

[mdshunk]

If I mess up, or somebody I am responsible for messes up, and I can fix it without affecting project and/or company profit, many times I do so.

I understand now. I still don't think you should do that on your own time, though. For instance, everyone has times where they finish work and something's not exactly right, so you troubleshoot it quick and fix it. Nobody really has to know, per se. Doing your own punchout is just part of the job to a certain extent, in my opinion. You just don't have to do it for free. Just last week I wired up a 4 gang box for 4 rows of lights. I had the second and third switches mixed up. No big deal. Just fix it.

What if something tragic happened when you had that panel cover off, replacing that 2-pole breaker with a 1-pole breaker? You were there on your own time, you say. No workman's comp for you, no settlement to your wife if you happened to die.

 

[360Youth]

What if something tragic happened when you had that panel cover off, replacing that 2-pole breaker with a 1-pole breaker? You were there on your own time, you say. No workman's comp for you, no settlement to your wife if you happened to die.

Excellent points. We have no time clocks here, so if that ever happens, and anybody asks, I was on company time. :wink: :grin:

I am not saying it is the ideal way to go, I was just curious how different people handle it. I am sure smaller companies where it is typically a group of guys working together will react differently than those that work for large companies and feel like not much more than a peon. My brother in the DC metro area, while very consientious of his work, works for a large EC (100+ workers) is not nearly as profit-conscience as I am in a company of 6.

 

[360Youth]

If I screw it up, I pay for it. Simple as that.

Chit happens.

Edit to add: Hey! A poll and everything!

Aren't you a one man crew, anyway?

 

[JohnJ0906]

360, I can kinda see your point, and it is great you are looking out for the company, but let's take a look at the flip side - if you bring a job in under budget, will you get a little extra? In other words, is this a 2-way street?

 

[480sparky]

Aren't you a one man crew, anyway?

Yea. But my work ethic stretches back to my W2 days.

 

[frizbeedog]

What if something tragic happened when you had that panel cover off, replacing that 2-pole breaker with a 1-pole breaker? You were there on your own time, you say. No workman's comp for you, no settlement to your wife if you happened to die.

I have often fixed things on my own time, for various reasons, but Marc makes a good point.

 

[wirebender]

If I thought I had to fix any screw ups on my own hook, I wouldn't get near as much work done in a day's time. I would be checking a double checking everyone's work and wouldn't accomplish much.

I've been on both sides of this issue and never required any employees to fix their mistakes on their own time. Mistakes are part of work and life. You have to find a balance between speed and caution.

 

[360Youth]

360, I can kinda see your point, and it is great you are looking out for the company, but let's take a look at the flip side - if you bring a job in under budget, will you get a little extra? In other words, is this a 2-way street?

We are treated very well. But that is not the sole reason for doing such things. Many times it is a personal responsibility to be accountable for what I am entrusted. Sometimes I don't want to get caught messing up. I will say, going back to Mark's initial thought, I have never asked an employee to fix anything for free and have even assured them it is never expected.

 

[ultramegabob]

anytime you are working for someone you should be clocked in, anytime someone is working for you, you should be paying them on the clock, mistakes are bound to happen sometime, but if they make lots of mistakes that are costing you, fire them....

 

[weressl]

I was wondering you guys handle fixing mistakes within the company. Do you fix on your own time or some sort of equivalent? Or is it chalked up as project loss. For example, we did a 400a panel change out last Friday and I got a call that night that the upstairs ac was not working. The customer said there was no need to come right then but I assured him I would be out first thing Sat morning. Upon investigation, the air handler circuit was mistakenly reinstalled as 240v instead of 120v, as it should have. I was not the one to do so but it was my project and my license so ultimately was my responsibility (I was working on the other panel). I spent 2 hours tracing out the problem and thankfully was No more than blown ansformer. The part was replaced and everything worked fine. I chose not to charge for my time so as not to add znymore loss to the job. How do you handle such situations. I realize this is not always possible nor best approach, but if I can prevent company loss, especially when my actions are a factor. There have been times when a project went longer than I estimated and it affects profit I will not charge my extra time to wrap it up. Once again, not every time, but when I am able, Or feel it is unduely my fault. This has the makings of a very opinionated thread, but here we go...what say you.

It is an ethical question. Answers are reflective of the individuals character.

Things to take into consideration when answering:

If I am not allowed to make a mistake will that encourage me to be creative therefore potentially raise my employers income.

If I am not allowed to make a mistake how will I learn.

If I made a mistake due to my own stupidity I may stay over to correct the problem without looking for compensation.

I often 'work' when I am not at work. At home I am thinking of solutions for next day problems.

Seldom does a mistake has only a single contributor. Do I work in an organization/environment where everybody is encouraged to see how our work process can be made more effective and we are able to look at problems honestly taking responsibility for our stuff?

Is my organization based on teamwork or everybody is just looking out for number one?

 

[big john]

For me, there's no uniform answer here.

If I make a mistake due to incompetence, then I will put in 110% trying to fix it, and if this means cutting my lunch break in half and staying a few extra minutes at the end of the day, fine, because it was a screw-up that I don't have an excuse for.

On the other hand, I once went through a ceiling when I missed a beam in an attic. While I certainly felt bad, I felt no responsibility to try and rectify that because I didn't see that as a preventable accident. I tripped, pure and simple.

As someone mentioned here, it's also a two-way street: If the company absorbs all the profit when I go above and beyond, then the company needs to also absorb the loss if I fall short. That being said, any employee that consistently falls short isn't going to be an employee for long....

-John

 

[frizbeedog]

If I am not allowed to make a mistake how will I learn.

About a half hour before reading this, I get a call from an inspector.

Me and my apprentice are roughing out a residential RV garage and upgrading the electric service. I'm working on the upgrade, while I turn my apprentice loose wiring the garage.......anyhooo.....

The correction: "You don't have six inches of free conductor in those boxes. Some were found to be as short as three."

I should have checked.....but. Given the fact that the first year of school for apprentices is residential wiring, I'm pretty sure that the six inch rule came up at some point. I should know, I went through the same program. At any rate it's a pretty basic rule that is utilized outside of residential.

First reaction? I'm pissed. But ultimately, I'm to blame. My job my crew.

I won't be pissed when I discuss this with my apprentice, but after I explain the error to him and have him consider the cost of his mistake I will then say, "What do we do to fix the problem?" By doing this I will get him to consider finacial responsibility and loss of time, as mixed with proper knowlege of the trade he has chosen, and it's impact on the bottom line.

I'm not happy about it, but I see an opprtunity to make a lasting impact. If I play it right.

:smile:

 

[JohnJ0906]

I won't be pissed when I discuss this with my apprentice, but after I explain the error to him and have him consider the cost of his mistake I will then say, "What do we do to fix the problem?" By doing this I will get him to consider finacial responsibility and loss of time, as mixed with proper knowlege of the trade he has chosen, and it's impact on the bottom line.

I'm not happy about it, but I see an opprtunity to make a lasting impact. If I play it right.

:smile:

Sounds like a good way to handle it. Turn it into a lesson, and hopefully it will stick.

 

[frizbeedog]

Sounds like a good way to handle it. Turn it into a lesson, and hopefully it will stick.

I think it will.

I've done some bonehead things in my time....we've all been there.