Monitoring multi family smoke alarms and CO alarms

[olc]

A multifamily with a common area smike and fire alarm system.
The apartments will have interconnected smoke alarms and at least one CO alarm.
What do you think of monitoring the smoke alarms and CO alarm with a addressible monitoring modual (one per apartment for each of the smoke alarms and CO alarms) for a supervisory signel.
I know it can all be done with smoke detectors and sounder bases.
May be an overkill for small buildings (i.e. 20 apartments).
I think there should be a way to silence the smoke alarms (for burnt toast).

 

[nhfire77]

A multifamily with a common area smike and fire alarm system.
The apartments will have interconnected smoke alarms and at least one CO alarm.
What do you think of monitoring the smoke alarms and CO alarm with a addressible monitoring modual (one per apartment for each of the smoke alarms and CO alarms) for a supervisory signel.
I know it can all be done with smoke detectors and sounder bases.
May be an overkill for small buildings (i.e. 20 apartments).
I think there should be a way to silence the smoke alarms (for burnt toast).

Are the smokes/CO in the apartments are line voltage smokes?

If so: You want to monitor line voltage resi smokes ???? I See no value in monitoring them, it will cause undue maintenance headaches.


I think there should be a way to silence the smoke alarms (for burnt toast)--- Doesn't unplugging them work?? Seriously though, some smokes have a silence feature built in.

CO's monitored in resi units would be a gray area for me. We do it in hotels, and some highrises, but not a 3 story apartment building, although each state has different rules, you gotta look. Common area CO's are always connected to the FA in new construction.

 

[olc]

Yes 120V smoke alarms.
Most projects I work on are for elderly (or students).
I think it is a good idea to let managment know if there is an alarm.

 

[nhfire77]

Yes 120V smoke alarms.
Most projects I work on are for elderly (or students).
I think it is a good idea to let managment know if there is an alarm.

Is this an independent or assisted living facility? You said multifamily.

I do a lot of multifamily and never put the 110v smokes on the main facp via modules, in fact it's pretty much a sin, most AHJs won't allow it. Elderly and dormitories are not what i think of when you say multifamily.


Now if you were to decide system smokes were appropriate, that would be different. For example a high rise apartment scenario. No smoke alarms, just smoke detectors with sounder bases, mapping all of one units sounder bases to sound on an intraunit alarm. Additonally, general alarm notification appliances in the unit for common area alarms. When any unit devices alarm, they can generate a supervisory signal, but 24 hour competent maintainence is necessary for such an arraignment to be successful.

What exactly is the application? I'm intrigued that you would use a smoke alarm to trigger a supervisory alarm.

 

[dhalleron]

The instruction sheet (I know, who reads that?) for BRK RM4 relay and Kidde SM120X relay for their smoke alarms tell you not to use the add on relay to monitor the alarms with an alarm panel. They give some kind of excuse that you wouldn't know what smoke alarm tripped the panel.

I think a better reason is the relays do not have battery backup and you are only counting on them to be monitored part of the time.

Gentex and GE have 120v smoke alarms with built in relays that do have battery backup. I have not seen the warning in their install sheet telling you not to monitor them.

Still it is not a very good idea to be dispatching the fire department on an apartment smoke alarm. You will soon find out how often people burn toast.

I see you were going to call it a supervisory alarm. I don't think that would be a very good idea either.

 

[peter d]

In my state, it's not required for the commercial fire alarm control unit to monitor the interconnected smoke alarm activity inside of the individual dwelling units. It's required to have one heat detector located in the kitchen connected to the FA system, and that is it. The purpose of the smoke alarms is to get people out of the unit, and it's the purpose of the building fire alarm to get everyone out of the building. There's no sense having a supervisory signal sent to the control panel for a nuisance alarm. Who would monitor it? Who would be sent out every time someone burns toast, as has been mentioned?

 

[hurk27]

Here it is not required, motels have a system called annunciators in the rooms along with regular monitored detectors, the annunciators are very similar to the smokes we use in dwellings but have a dry contact to light up and buzz a monitor panel up at the desk that gives them the room number, from this they send someone immediately to the room to see what the problem is or if they have a person smoking in a non-smoking room, false fire call or alarms are chargeable by most fire departments and could result in some expensive charges for your customer, I can see a annunciator type system where the site is monitored by some one on the site that could intervene after checking on the room, but not where they will trigger an alarm with out disclosing where it is coming from.

Most apartment buildings here only have monitored hall and stairway detection with pull stations to report and confirm the alarm, but inside the apartment is regular AC/battery smoke/CO detectors that are isolated to each unit, but trust me, with three of these in each unit they are loud enough to alert the neighbors in a adjoining apartments we do have many apartment buildings that are all electric so no CO detectors.

 

[olc]

I am not suggesting at all that the smoke alarms result in a general building alarm or a call to the fire department (this is not allowed). Most of these buildings have management and security personell that are on site at least during the day or could be called any time.
I do not care which device in the apartment is activated. If there were an alarm, managment would want to make sure the tenant (who might be fairly elderly) was OK. Supervision only (like a trouble).
Generally the neighbors are as elderly and may or may not be able to assist. (or in the case of students, even wake up) This is just an assurance. We would expect that in 99% of the cases the tenant would be able to take action themselves or the nieghbor would respond.

 

[hurk27]

I am not suggesting at all that the smoke alarms result in a general building alarm or a call to the fire department (this is not allowed). Most of these buildings have management and security personnel that are on site at least during the day or could be called any time.
I do not care which device in the apartment is activated. If there were an alarm, management would want to make sure the tenant (who might be fairly elderly) was OK. Supervision only (like a trouble).
Generally the neighbors are as elderly and may or may not be able to assist. (or in the case of students, even wake up) This is just an assurance. We would expect that in 99% of the cases the tenant would be able to take action themselves or the neighbor would respond.

Then I would expect that you are looking at a annunciator type system like used In a motel, which in that case would be very beneficial but there would be a cost over standard type smoke systems which these smokes have a dry contact that could alarm a light that would point the management to the correct room or unit in which it was set off, not knowing which room depending upon how big the place is would be very frustrating to the management if it was hard to find or the tenet reset it.

I don't remember the brand name of the main annunciator control panel but I do remember that the smokes and CO detectors were a common brand that we also use in regular AC/battery smokes like Fire-X or BRK's they just had two smaller gage purple wires for the dry contacts.

 

[hurk27]

Come to think of it, the assisted living home my mother was at had a very similar system that also had large help buttons all over the apartment and a wireless unit she hung from her neck she could push that would annunciate if anything went wrong or she needed help, it was a very remarkable system which is why we chose the place.

 

[gadfly56]

What nhfire77 said. We do this for one of our clients, a university. The smoke detectors in the dorm rooms report on a separate zone to the central station. The central station does NOT roll the trucks on these alarms, but notifies campus security (24/7 operation). The detectors are mounted to sounder bases, and panel logic activates all the bases in the suite, but not in any adjacent suite. If a pull station, waterflow device, or hallway smoke detector is activated, the common area notification appliances are activated and the sounder bases in all the dorm suites are also activated. In addition to notifying security, the central station will also call the local fire dispatch.

This is not something you can do with your common smoke alarms. There's no supervision for the presence of the detectors, for one thing.