More drawing questions

[electricalist]

Im not sure how clear this came out. I can take another.
Panel CL for instance, the circuits are all over the place. They arent grouped very well in my opinion.
with 3 circuits per conduit home run, I end up with areas the may have 2 same phase and one different.
You guys that know what I should do , any advice will be appreciated, if this is my lesson to learn I understand.
1 group them by distance and dont worry about if it ends up 3 a phase circuits, which leads to more identification and switching wire on wire pulls.
2 group a phase b phase c phase in each home run conduit. Although some wont work out, but less chance of a mistake.
3 re circuit the whole thing to be black red blue in each conduit and redo the panel schedule to be even circuits on one side of the bldg and odd on the other, and deal with what ever conflict it may bring.

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[electricalist]

Unclear pic.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Assuming that they are general purpose circuits with the same load, I would think about arranging them into networks. If the loads are the same changing the circuits will not affect the load balance on the panel. If there are differences in the loads for each circuit, you will have to watch what you move to keep the panel balanced. However the first thing is that you have to make sure that multi-wire branch circuits are permitted. Often they are not, now that the code requires a common means of disconnect for all of the ungrounded conductors of a multi-wire circuit.

If you change the circuits around, you will have to provide as built drawings.

 

[electricalist]

The CL panel is emergency panel. Not sharing any neutrals. ..3 hots 3 neutrals.these are em gfci and em outlets.
Also this is a 2 section panel and one are has 20,59,21 . That means a gutter or nipple or some unnecessary means to connect the panels circuits.

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[Tony S]

Do the drawing as straight lines ignoring physical locations. Give each point a reference that you can then add to the ground plan. OK it means two drawings but less chance of mistakes being made.

I’ll be honest, that looks like a kids drawing book.

 

[electricalist]

Ill agree it does. There are 7 panels and the mdp.
Someone highlighted each panels circuits, then as someone was grouping the circuits to be more balanced, someone was marking the floor for home run locations while someone was running pipe..


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[Tony S]

If you do a lot of work of this type, have a look for a drawing package that can do multi layer drawings. You do the electrical layout, plumbing and A/C add their bits. Then you find the bit in the middle where the mix up is going to occur before it happens.
I use autosketch, I think you can get a free trial download.

BTW.
You have my sympathy on running various services.

More than once I’ve cut through a wall for a cable run, next day there’s a damn great pipe running though the hole. Last time it happened I got an oxyacetylene cutter and chopped the pipe up in to small bits.

 

[electricalist]

Luckily we have a wide open space (no interior walls) to get ahead of the chaos. Ive already started running the home run conduits across the red iron and plan to run them to a device and green mc the other circuits from there..
It takes layers of my own drawings to find the best path.
Then not get in my own way because the 3 xfmrs will be mounted above the panels.

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[Tony S]

Lucky you, a clear space to work.

We started rewiring this place in 1974, twenty three years later when I left the company it still wasn’t finished.

My workshop is in the bottom right hand corner with the orange sign above the door.

 

[electricalist]

When i go into places like that, with years of history, as strange as this sounds I begin to see the code in a simple ,yet correct way.
My guess is it was compliant ,looked good but without the bells and whistles.

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[luckylerado]

Do the drawing as straight lines ignoring physical locations. Give each point a reference that you can then add to the ground plan...

This is what I suggest also. Make a HR drawing. 1 color for underslab and 1 color for Over head and a key of which circuits are in which raceway. Stick it in your pocket for the wire pulling crew so they don't have much to think about when they start pulling. Color code the circuits for them too if you really want to make it go smooth.

As long as you are not sharing neutrals on same phase, everything balances out. No worries if you put 3 "A" phases in the same raceway.

I try to discourage my guys from re-arranging circuits. If you start changing things on the construction drawings it tends to be hard to track and becomes confusing in the end and most (NOT ALL) guys are awful at getting red lines and as-builts recorded properly and distributed to the rest of the project.

 

[electricalist]

Thsnks, your knowledge was earned and i appreciate it.

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