more hoops to jump through

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ceb58

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
I was reading through the Aug. NC Elect. Contractors newsletter when I found a new hoop that we must jump through. For any one in NC who dose work on well pumps. You must have a D cert. to break the seal on a well to repair or replace a pump. If the pump is above the seal the regulation dose not apply nor would the pressure switch. So if we are to follow the law to replace or repair a submersible pump we must have a permit, have some one (plumber or well drilling contractor) who holds at least a D cert. break the seal, disinfect and reseal the well. It looks as if it would be hard for a electrical contractor to get the cert. due to the 6 mo. experience with a well driller.
Its amazing how many times it has been discussed here about the deficit in charges between plumbers and HVAC versus the electrical contractors. There are electrical codes that only show up in plumbing code but we must know it and install it. We run the HVAC guys down to find out what they are installing and get the spec's. so we can install the correct wiring.
Why is it the ones that have there on code to follow plus keep up with the other trades wind up underpaid?
 
I've not received my news letter yet,
Probably an EPA thing.
I know plumbers that change them all the time. The biggest mistake they make is hooking a new motor up to the old outside controll box. What's it got a capacitor or starter in their. And the new motors have them built internally. I know some one who's house caught on fire this way.

I've had plumbers ask me how to make the wire connections at the bottom on a submergible pump. I tell them to solder them. (You are suppose to use a listed means, I know, not solder) But I figure it is conveinent for a plmber.

An other thing is the wire that goes down to the pump will some times rub it self raw from the vibration of the water lines turning on and off, over time and hitting the well's metal wall.
 
ceb58 said:
...Its amazing how many times it has been discussed here about the deficit in charges between plumbers and HVAC versus the electrical contractors. There are electrical codes that only show up in plumbing code but we must know it and install it. ...
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Seems someone should be directing the enegry toward the State Board.
If I recall correctly the plumbers can have a electrical license in NC to install there own work, does that include a 277 Volt or a 480 pump? Frankly I don't know! Where does the point of their service stop and ours begin ?

I'm looking at undergound wells with #8's maybe #10 in their conduit from well head, it's certainly nothing I could use day in/day out(the conduit), its just popped out like the supply and return from thermal wells, gezz maybe, they get to it... Maybe I'll watch to see what size box they make up for the transition to house service!
 
cadpoint said:
Seems someone should be directing the enegry toward the State Board.
If I recall correctly the plumbers can have a electrical license in NC to install there own work, does that include a 277 Volt or a 480 pump? Frankly I don't know! Where does the point of their service stop and ours begin ?
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From what I read they can work on 600v line to line. But on the load side only from a disconnect that has been installed by qualified electrician. Basically a plumber or well contractor who holds a sp-we license can replace the wiring from the disconnect to the pump. Same applies to the sp-ph for plumbing and HVAC. They can disconnect and or replace the wiring from the disconnect to the equipment but can do nothing on the line side or install line side wiring.
Now the question is what will you or are you going to do if a call come in to replace a submersible pump?
 
ceb58, you replace a lot of well pumps? I do a few, here and there, but not enough to get cranked up about. It's not exactly what I'd call "fun". The only reason I asked if you did a lot is because I got this neat "pump puller" at an auction years ago, and it works great. They still make it. It's called the Up-Z-Dazy. Most every plumber and well driller around here uses one. http://www.rentalmanagementmag.com/Product.asp?ImgID=375



up-z-daisy.jpg
 
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Well (pun intended), I never installed a well pump and don't care if I never do.

Look, you need a special license for security work so why is this different. Most of the EC around here would have no clue and how to install a pump-- why not leave it to those who know how.

Plumbers, well guys, etc can get a very limited license to wire their end of things. I think this is reasonable. I would hate to have to pull the pump up to wire it because the well guy couldn't. :grin:

We cannot install HVAC either, nor plumbing- so I must be missing the issue here.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
We cannot install HVAC either, nor plumbing- so I must be missing the issue here.
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The issue is that some of us (me!) want to know all about and work on everything connected by wires. Doesn't always work out, but that's the goal.
 
I do not know everything (DUH) but I'd like to narrow the void between my ears with more knowledge. Hence my participation here.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Well (pun intended), I never installed a well pump and don't care if I never do.

Look, you need a special license for security work so why is this different. Most of the EC around here would have no clue and how to install a pump-- why not leave it to those who know how.

Plumbers, well guys, etc can get a very limited license to wire their end of things. I think this is reasonable. I would hate to have to pull the pump up to wire it because the well guy couldn't. :grin:

We cannot install HVAC either, nor plumbing- so I must be missing the issue here.
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The issue is that all though some may never have a call for a pump repair due to the area you work in. Dennis you fall into this category just by where you are located, I for one live and work in a more rural area where there are numerous homes on their on well system. I have maybe 10-15 calls a year for problems with pumps. For the most it is nothing more than a pressure switch issue, fire ants love to get in them and short them out, but I have had several occasions that the pump needed pulling to replace. And some of those that I pulled were installed incorrectly by the well guys not putting the torque arrestors on the piping to stop the pump from hitting the casing during start up and damaging the wire. Now the way I understand the rules I have some choices if I am to continue offering this service. Get the D-well cert. and a permit to break the seal, do as I have in the past replace pump, pour in a gallon of Clorox wait 30 min. pump it out or if it is something below the well seal tell the customer ( who is out of water) I cant do the work and they must call some one else. I dont know about any one else but I hate walking away from $$$. Not to mention the fact the HO is now pissed and will probably never call you again for any other work. Because usually when you get these calls it is ether 20 or 100 degrees and or night. Never on a nice 70 degree day. But the customer remembers you and tells others.

My point being to legally continue doing this work the state has now placed another obstacle in the way for those of us that do offer this work. And if we are to do our best to comply with the rules and regulations its one more license we must obtain.
 
mdshunk said:
ceb58, you replace a lot of well pumps? I do a few, here and there, but not enough to get cranked up about. It's not exactly what I'd call "fun". The only reason I asked if you did a lot is because I got this neat "pump puller" at an auction years ago, and it works great. They still make it. It's called the Up-Z-Dazy. Most every plumber and well driller around here uses one. http://www.rentalmanagementmag.com/Product.asp?ImgID=375



up-z-daisy.jpg
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Marc, it would be easier for you to tell us what tool you do not own:grin: :grin:
 
mdshunk said:
ceb58, you replace a lot of well pumps? I do a few, here and there, but not enough to get cranked up about. It's not exactly what I'd call "fun". The only reason I asked if you did a lot is because I got this neat "pump puller" at an auction years ago, and it works great. They still make it. It's called the Up-Z-Dazy. Most every plumber and well driller around here uses one. http://www.rentalmanagementmag.com/Product.asp?ImgID=375



up-z-daisy.jpg
Click to expand...
wow Marc your really do have every tool in the book!!
 
OOOOhhh. Maybe Mark you could just issue us a calander with a "Tool of the Month" instead of just stringing us along with the ol'. Yep I got this tool right here that take all the sweat out of the job that you're cryin' about.
 
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