More questions on AFCI

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dicklaxt

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The recent dining room post generated some curiosity on my part and I thought it best to start another post.

In the late 90's just prior to my retiring AFCI circuits were becoming an issue.along with GFCI. I understand there is now combination OC,AF and GF devices to cover these so governed circuits.

I also need to ask is there a AFCI master receptacle available for the beginning of a circuit that protects all receptacles downstream?I assume this could just hang on a std. bkr.

The question is, do you as contractors buy panel boards with only these devices or are you using them only as required(what ever that is) along with plain vanilla breakers of old as well?

Okay ,yes I know basic questions but cut me some slack,I'm old and out of the loop. :dunce::) I'll be 77 next spring if I make it.:)

dick
 
A classic example of Code writing by industry lobbyists. The Code had requirements and provisions for stuff that was not even manufactured or marketed at the time of its adoption.

The general public was turned into beta testers for this junk, and still is to this day. The industry was able to shift much of the marketing and testing costs to the end-users by using this technique of compulsory marketing.

AFAIK, non-overcurrent (stand alone) AFCI devices are not readily available, or scarce if available at all at this time.
 
dicklaxt said:
The recent dining room post generated some curiosity on my part and I thought it best to start another post.

In the late 90's just prior to my retiring AFCI circuits were becoming an issue.along with GFCI. I understand there is now combination OC,AF and GF devices to cover these so governed circuits.

I also need to ask is there a AFCI master receptacle available for the beginning of a circuit that protects all receptacles downstream?I assume this could just hang on a std. bkr.

The question is, do you as contractors buy panel boards with only these devices or are you using them only as required(what ever that is) along with plain vanilla breakers of old as well?

Okay ,yes I know basic questions but cut me some slack,I'm old and out of the loop. :dunce::) I'll be 77 next spring if I make it.:)

dick
Click to expand...

Okay old man. :D An afci combination breaker is not a combo afci/GFCI. It is strictly a combination afci that does parallel as well as series faults.

All the manufacturers of AFCI breakers have GFCI installed in the except GE. The GFCI install in this AFCI do not protect personal at the 4-6 ma required but are at the 40 or so ma range.
 
Okay Thanks

What about the remote AFCI master question as the beginning receptacle any such animal?

dick
 
The 2011 has basically mandated that they be in existence by Jan 1, 2014

406.4(D)(4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that requires arc-fault circuit interrupter protection as specified elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this outlet shall be one of the following:
(1) A listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter receptacle
(2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter type receptacle
(3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type arc-fault circuit interrupter type circuit breaker
This requirement becomes effective January 1, 2014.
Click to expand...
 
Whats the present status of a workable combo unit that can recognize the needed waveforms that truely reflect a dangerous arc fault condition and has the GFCI portion of the combo unit been worked out to the required ma levels of the stand alone GFCI?


You can see I've been doing a little reading but don't ask me where I found the above ammunition:).I just run around reading and not recording so I can always say "I read it somewhere":)

dick
 
Not sure what you are asking. Yes they work however the afci's still have many problems as trying to determine time signature for every piece of equipment is monumental and IMO, impossible. There seems there will always be issues with afci unless manufactures of motors and electronic equipment have some guidelines they need to fall within.
 
Okay thats good enough but with that being said how does that correlate with the earlier posted info.....about the 2014 mandate,are we going on line with a AFCI thats a maybe device but considered better than nothing. I guess there aren't many options are there.

The part about the GFCI, as a stand alone device with it's low ma detection circuit vs the much higher ma detection circuit of the present AFCI,,,,,,,are they attempting to correct the AFCI or throwing in the towel and going with a separate GFCI.

dick
 
dicklaxt said:
Okay thats good enough but with that being said how does that correlate with the earlier posted info.....about the 2014 mandate,are we going on line with a AFCI thats a maybe device but considered better than nothing. I guess there aren't many options are there.

The part about the GFCI, as a stand alone device with it's low ma detection circuit vs the much higher ma detection circuit of the present AFCI,,,,,,,are they attempting to correct the AFCI or throwing in the towel and going with a separate GFCI.

dick
Click to expand...

I am not sure why gfci was introduced into the afci. For some reason it is there but GE did away with it so it is not a mandated situation. It may have been easier to develop but I don't know for sure.

I have not seen anyone use a combination breaker that is afci/gfci so I wonder whether they will continue to make them. The 2014 is basically saying we need an afci so when we add a device to an existing circuit we wouldn't have to afci the entire cir. which may be quite a nuisance. If they make a receptacle device with a 4-6ma gfci in it that would kill 2 birds with one stone on a two wire circuit
 
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