More supply house woes

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kbsparky

kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
We recently hooked up the service for a new modular home. During the install, we discovered that the panel did not have any AFI breakers in it.

The electrical inspector indicated that this will have to be corrected before a final could be issued (job is in Virginia -- 2005 Code is in force).

The panel is ITE/Siemens. The breakers we need are Q115AF. Probably will need at least 4 of them, maybe more.

I called several different suppliers. Their quotes varied from a low price of $33.06 each to over $40. :mad:

None of the suppliers had more than one or two of these in stock. :confused:

Tonight, when I was roaming at the local Lowe's, I noticed they had plenty on hand, for a whopping $31.95 each.

So why is it that none of the local suppliers have many available, nor at a reasonable price, but Lowe's has plenty at a price lower than all the wholesalers?

I have an open account with all the suppliers, but will end up using my CC at Lowe's and get airline miles to boot! :roll:
 
C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
Isn't a modular home a UL listed assembly? I've only wired manufactured/mobile homes, you hit them with a feeder and leave everything else alone.
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
kbsparky said:
So why is it that none of the local suppliers have many available, nor at a reasonable price, but Lowe's has plenty at a price lower than all the wholesalers?

I have an open account with all the suppliers, but will end up using my CC at Lowe's and get airline miles to boot! :roll:
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That's why I'm among the black sheep in the forum who do not shun the orange and blue stores. Compare panel, breaker, and NM prices.

I just bought a hot-tub 50a GFCI breaker-in-a-box from the blue store for $80, and my "favorite" supplier had the same one for $118.
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I don't buy at our local big box store unless I have to, meaning the supply houses don't have what I need. When I started buying AFCIs the supply house had none and the price was to high if ordered. I made comment to supplier & his factory rep that this needed to change. They are now in stock at a competitve price. Sometimes you just have to say what you want to the right people.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Cow said:
Isn't a modular home a UL listed assembly? I've only wired manufactured/mobile homes, you hit them with a feeder and leave everything else alone.
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I think this is an interesting point.

It seems the inspector is requiring more then is actually required.
 
kbsparky

kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
Cow said:
Isn't a modular home a UL listed assembly? I've only wired manufactured/mobile homes, you hit them with a feeder and leave everything else alone.
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Herein lies the problem. You are thinking of a HUD-certified home, which are traditionally called mobile homes, or double-wides (There is even a triple-wide out there, but for the purpose of this discussion we will stick with the former). :rolleyes:

There is a marked difference between a manufactured/mobile home, and a modular one. And the difference is usually how the home is built and transported.

Mobile homes are built on a chassis, transported to the site, and then set in place on pier foundation. A skirting is placed around the base of the home after it has been set. The chassis remains as part of the permanent structure of the building. These houses are usually HUD-certified and have a metal certification plaque attached on each section of the house . This is the "UL" listed assembly you are thinking of.

If you place a solid, permanent foundation around it, it can be called a manufactured home, and as such can have the service equipment and meter box mounted directly on the structure, as outlined in section 550.32(B).

A modular home is built using more traditional methods, and then placed on a metal chassis for transport to the site. Once at the site, the home is removed from the chassis and placed on a permanent foundation. The empty chassis is then returned to the manufacturer and reused for the next house. Many manufacturers refer to them as sectional houses.

There is no HUD certification on these, and thus are subject to the same provisions of the building codes for any other structures that are built on site.

Modular homes do not qualify for any provisions outlined in article 550, since the chassis is used only for transport, and does not remain as part of its permanent structure, as outlined in the definitions of a manufactured home in 550.2. The FPNs also refers to applicable building codes for what constitutes a permanent foundation, as well as HUD certification issues.

So in this instance, we have a manufacturer who is used to building HUD houses, and now wants to dabble in modular construction. :roll:

They conveniently forgot that non-HUD houses have to comply with all the provisions of the Code when they failed to install the AFI breakers on the bedroom circuits.

Since they wired all the lights on 2 circuits (one for each half) and the outlets on separate circuits, and the smokes on its own circuit, in order to fully comply with 210.12(B), I may need 4 or 5 of those AFI buggers. ;)
 
J

JWCELECTRIC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
kbsparky said:
You can weigh your full reels and compare.
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KB,

Have you gone out and compared weights, or used your meter to compare differences between your local SH & The collored stores? I usually don't have time to take measurements, I feel confident with the local SH that I am getting the best quality and length as paid for.
 
kbsparky

kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
JWCELECTRIC said:
And A scale to purchase?
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We weigh our reels of romex all the time.

A 1000 foot reel of 14-2 weighs 59 pounds. A full reel of 12-2 weighs 82 pounds.

Subtract a couple of pounds for the empty reel, and you can calculate how much wire you used off that reel on any given day. Easier to figure than measuring it out. :grin:
 
J

JWCELECTRIC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
kbsparky said:
We weigh our reels of romex all the time.

A 1000 foot reel of 14-2 weighs 59 pounds. A full reel of 12-2 weighs 82 pounds.

Subtract a couple of pounds for the empty reel, and you can calculate how much wire you used off that reel on any given day. Easier to figure than measuring it out. :grin:
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So who is more accurate with the footage the SH's or the Hdepo's of the world?
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Our local Home Depot has a Licensed Master / Former Inspector / Code Upgrade teacher for the manager of the electrical department. He is great! Since Larry came to the store I see more and more electricians there grabbing stuff. If HD doesn't have it, Larry can usually talk them into getting it on the shelves.

Our supply houses are pretty good, too, but have very limited hours and HD has more low voltage and specialty stuff than the supply houses. HD also has great prices on wire and cable.

I went to our local SH to get some structured wiring supplies as I had been for a couple years, the shelf was cleared of what I needed. I asked why and they said they weren't stocking the stuff because it wasn't selling. Then where did it go? I told the counter dude, a good guy, that THIS is why big box stores are putting SHs out of business, NOT that they save us a few bucks on a purchase. I drove less than 2 miles to a Lowe's and got all the structured wiring supplies I needed. And I am able to do it seven days a week and after 4:30 pm.

The SHs are still the place to get special tools locally, but if you aren't in a big hurry you can save big bucks by purchasing from the Internet venues. I did, however, just get a new Vol-Com from HD for 35 bucks.

FWIW, Sears now sells and warrants Klien tools. If you have a defective Klien tool you should be able to bring it to a Sears store for replacement.
 
ceb58

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
kbsparky said:
A modular home is built using more traditional methods, and then placed on a metal chassis for transport to the site. Once at the site, the home is removed from the chassis and placed on a permanent foundation. The empty chassis is then returned to the manufacturer and reused for the next house. Many manufacturers refer to them as sectional houses.

There is no HUD certification on these, and thus are subject to the same provisions of the building codes for any other structures that are built on site.

Modular homes do not qualify for any provisions outlined in article 550, since the chassis is used only for transport, and does not remain as part of its permanent structure, as outlined in the definitions of a manufactured home in 550.2. The FPNs also refers to applicable building codes for what constitutes a permanent foundation, as well as HUD certification issues.

So in this instance, we have a manufacturer who is used to building HUD houses, and now wants to dabble in modular construction. :roll:

They conveniently forgot that non-HUD houses have to comply with all the provisions of the Code when they failed to install the AFI breakers on the bedroom circuits.

Since they wired all the lights on 2 circuits (one for each half) and the outlets on separate circuits, and the smokes on its own circuit, in order to fully comply with 210.12(B), I may need 4 or 5 of those AFI buggers. ;)
Click to expand...

The modular homes I have set the service for have had an inspection sticker on the panel from the Mfg. I would say it is the Mfg. place to install the breakers since they are supposed to pass inspection before they leave the plant.
 
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