Motion Lights also on switch

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Bama_Electrical

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Electrician
This was a bit of an odd request (at least for me), so thought I would post it here to see what y’all thought. I have a customer who has requested that the 5 sconce lights, represented by the red circles below be on a 3-way switch but also motion activated. They want the lights to come on when they drive up the driveway and into their garage. They want them all to come on at the same time. Thoughts, recommendations?




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It can't be done with standard line voltage controls. The motion sensor(s) would only turn on the lights if the switch was also on. How much does the owner want to spend on a lighting control system? You could look at something like Lutron Caseta and use a geofencing option rather than motion sensing to turn the lights on when the owner drives up.
 
You can use standard switching as a manual override off or on, or maybe even on/off/auto.

First, what do you want the manual override switching to accomplish? Keeping the lights on?

Second, what kind of motion sensor? Parallel the lights' sensors, or separate stand-alone sensor?
 
I think I've seen some motion sensors that have a feature where if you switch it off and on quickly or a couple of times it will change to a steady on for some amount of time and then revert to dusk/motion.
 
I would not use 3 ways. You have no way of knowing if they are on or off by switch position.
And as Larry said parallel the motion sensors so any sensor that sees motion will turn them all on.
Also watch the wattage of the bulbs if incandescent they add up quick
 
Electromatic said:
I think I've seen some motion sensors that have a feature where if you switch it off and on quickly or a couple of times it will change to a steady on for some amount of time and then revert to dusk/motion.
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The ones I'm familiar with will let you set it to stay on by turning the switch off and back on once, and off for a minute and back on to cancel it. Otherwise, it will stay on until dawn, then revert back.
 
The customer wants a switch at the front door and at the garage entry door to control the lights. That’s where the 3-way switch came into the conversation.
 
qcroanoke said:
I would not use 3 ways. You have no way of knowing if they are on or off by switch position.
And as Larry said parallel the motion sensors so any sensor that sees motion will turn them all on.
Also watch the wattage of the bulbs if incandescent they add up quick
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I had a customer years ago, that I wired his cabin and he wanted to be able to turn the floods off and on from any room. I think I ended up with 8 or 9 switches. Then when I did the trim out, he hands me 6 motion flood lights! Luckily for him, the load side three way was at the entrance door, so I replaced it with a lighted pilot three way, so he could tell whether it was on or not.
 
BamaElectricalGuy said:
The customer wants a switch at the front door and at the garage entry door to control the lights. That’s where the 3-way switch came into the conversation.
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But what control does he want the switches to have? Keep them on? Keep them off? Turn them on but have the sensors turn them back off after the set timer? (That last one is difficult.)

The problem with simply using regular 3-way switching to bypass the motion sensors is that, once manually turned on, the lights will stay on until someone remembers to switch them back off.

As others recommended, you should use an electronic lighting control setup, where one switch is a receiver/controller, the other is a transmitter, and the motion sensors are transmitters.

If you wire for standard 3-way switches, you can do this with switch-sized transmitter and receiver units, and still have an installation that can be reverted to normal switches if ever desired.

Otherwise, just use regular 3-ways and motion-sensor lights (use 3-wire cable from light to light for this, and each light has to have the capacity to run them all), and use the switch-flip feature.
 
Electromatic said:
I think I've seen some motion sensors that have a feature where if you switch it off and on quickly or a couple of times it will change to a steady on for some amount of time and then revert to dusk/motion.
Click to expand...
I recently installed a motion detecting back porch light, and in the troubleshooting section of the user guide it says if the light doesn't turn off in daylight it might be in manual override mode, but NOWHERE does it tell me how to put it into that mode. I frequently have to jump up and down and wave my arms around to get it to turn back on when it turns off while I am trying to do something out there at night.
 
ggunn said:
I recently installed a motion detecting back porch light, and in the troubleshooting section of the user guide it says if the light doesn't turn off in daylight it might be in manual override mode, but NOWHERE does it tell me how to put it into that mode. I frequently have to jump up and down and wave my arms around to get it to turn back on when it turns off while I am trying to do something out there at night.
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Most of the motion sensor lights, in particular the floodlight versions, will go into override when you turn the switch off for 1 or 2 secs, then back on. To reverse that, turn the switch off for 15 secs or so and back on. The light will turn back on, then go off after it times out. Or, you can leave it in override and it will reset the next day.
 
We do these allot. But only in one location. We use a on down on/ up on/ off in the middle switch. Run 14/3 to the motion detector. Red to the detector, black to the lights.
So when the black is on it will back feed the motion detector. But it doesn't hurt with dry contactor it works fine. We label the switch on up / off in the middle /on via motion in the down position . We install the switch up higher in the hall to avoid it being flipped on and off. Then you won't need a three way. If some thing is out there , they'll be on.
Looks real nice avoiding the bright flood lights.
 
Why not install a Lutron Caseta on/off switch at one door, a Pico remote at the other door, and a Pico remote clipped to the sun visor in the car?

That way the can turn the lights on from the car as they drive up to the house.

I've done it, and there's a visor clip available from Lutron
 
You can have the manual switch in the house work independently of the motions- it can turn lights on and off but if the motion is on then the switch will not be able to turn it off.

What i did from there was have 2 motions one at both ends of the driveway and wire them like you would a 3 way switch. This way if you leave the garage they will come on and when you come home they will also come on. The switch in the house is to bypass and leave it on all the time or for extended time.
 
James L said:
Why not install a Lutron Caseta on/off switch at one door, a Pico remote at the other door, and a Pico remote clipped to the sun visor in the car?

That way the can turn the lights on from the car as they drive up to the house.

I've done it, and there's a visor clip available from Lutron
Click to expand...
Just done that on a log cabin that was wired to a minimum years ago, new owner wants switches everywhere, the pico’s work great.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
You can have the manual switch in the house work independently of the motions- it can turn lights on and off but if the motion is on then the switch will not be able to turn it off.

What i did from there was have 2 motions one at both ends of the driveway and wire them like you would a 3 way switch. This way if you leave the garage they will come on and when you come home they will also come on. The switch in the house is to bypass and leave it on all the time or for extended time.
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Switch and motion would have to be on the same circuit, right?
 
BamaElectricalGuy said:
Switch and motion would have to be on the same circuit, right?
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Yes, same circuit. But it would probably work on the same phase but not safely. Wouldn't be prudent. Then you could use relays, but now we're getting crazy.

I had a customer that wanted a motion light so when they came home at dark they could see to get in the house. I said when I grew up. We just kept the car lights on. Go unluck the door turn on the lights with the single pole switch. It was never a big deal. We never gave it a second thought. Until now, ;)
 
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