motion sensors in stairways

Merry Christmas
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

llverbeek

Member
Location
Northern VA
Hi all.. this may or may not be an NEC question.. IBC stands mute on it.. kind of... NFPA 101 may apply.. but here goes..

A question was posed to me recently if motion sensors would be allowed to control the exit lighting in a commercial high rise stair... IBC says " the means of egress including the exit discharge shall be illuminated at all times the building space served by the means of egress is occupied"..

apparently in other parts of the world (Japan was specifically mentioned) it's common..

If they are suggesting that as soon as any motion occurs, the stairway lights up.. (like a refrigerator door.. does the light REALLY ever go off), is it allowable?

Finding a less than satisfactory answer to satisfy my gut instinct, maybe you guys have an idea.. thanks
 
llverbeek said:
" the means of egress including the exit discharge shall be illuminated at all times the building space served by the means of egress is occupied"..
Click to expand...

IMO it is clear that as long as the building is occupied the stairways will be illuminated regardless of the stairway itself being vacant.
 
llverbeek said:
.. IBC says " the means of egress including the exit discharge shall be illuminated at all times the building space served by the means of egress is occupied"..
Click to expand...

That pretty much clears it up.
 
that's my gut check too... if it's a totally transparent transition.. who would know.. (like the refrigerator analogy)... just was looking for greater minds than mine for an opinion.. thanks
 
this particular client saw this in Japan... and on one of the channels (discovery or something), I saw motion sensors turning lights on as someone walks down a corridor and off as soon as they pass... (I'm thinking security more than tumbling down the stairs, frankly... but I guess if a stalker moves, the lights are on anyway)... I COULD argue this either way, but I'm glad someone else agrees... thanks great minds (and I think you really are) :smile:
 
I have seen this done in hallways, but in a slightly different manner. When the hallway is unoccupied, maybe one lamp in every third fixture is on. The occupancy sensor brings on the rest of the lamps. Sort of a modified/automated A/B switching. That way, if the sensor fails, the minimum required number of egress footcandles will still exist. I suppose you could do something similar in your stairway if you wanted to. That's a lot of occupancy sensors to do a stairwell properly, though.
 
my suggestion was to leave the absolute minimum emergency lighting permanently on (I understand ballasts, etc last better that way, anyway), and any accessory lighting (sconces etc) on sensors (if they so insisted).. sensors can be overcome just like lights (if someone is so inclined).. I know I'd never go into a dark stairway under any circumstances (well.. ok.. if 10,000 other people are already in there... maybe)
 
What Marc described is common for us.

The lights that stay on are the required egress lighting, the ones that switch are optional / decorative additional fixtures.

However we also have set up switching that puts everything out when the entire space is unoccupied.

No egress lighting, no exit signs in some cases even the majority of receptacle circuits.
 
Is there a good VERIFIABLE way to determine that the spaces are unoccupied (short of infra-red or something)..

I'm not trying to be arguementative... just want a concensus opinion to give my client.. :cool:
 
llverbeek said:
Is there a good VERIFIABLE way to determine that the spaces are unoccupied (short of infra-red or something)..
Click to expand...
Yes, the janitor or night watchman generally verifies that fact. After all, somebody locks up and sets the alarm at night. Wait... I take that back. Nevermind.
 
Last edited:
No egress lighting, no exit signs in some cases even the majority of receptacle circuits.[/QUOTE]

Is the receptacle going off controled by shutting down a panel with a contactor or just individual circuits with a latching relay?
 
acrwc10 said:
Is the receptacle going off controlled by shutting down a panel with a contactor or just individual circuits with a latching relay?
Click to expand...

The customer we shut down the receptacles for had specified Square D power link panels which have breakers that can be remotely controlled.

It was a large department store chain and by shutting down the receptacles that would shut down all the displays, both permanent and seasonal.
 
corridor exit signs would remain on... it's the stairways per se in question.. seems like an unnecessary maintenance-intensive issue to me.. given every component is going to be turned on more often.. corridor emergency lighting would stay on..

I'd LOVE to find a code that prohibits it.. but.. I can't..
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top